Windows Surface Pro - Part of Slitherine Core Beta Tests

[DonCzirr]

So - I get the whole Slitherine general move away from IOS thing.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 87&t=76131

Not my preference (as I recently invested in a 2017 iPAD device) - but I understand that Apple policy making and consideration for both Devs and users is horrible.

On the other hand, I believe there's a lot of folks out there looking for a mobile gaming solution.

Android is a freemium wasteland - so that leaves Windows mobile devices.

I have seen some posts about mixed experiences with Windows devices for gaming purposes.

So - the question is, will the Slitherine core Beta testing process, as a standard, also include validation on those devices?

I'm still playing around with the idea of picking one up but I would like to hear Slitherine's stance on future development in that area.

[pipfromslitherine]

The archon games all include drag scrolling, so that would help. I am not sure we could easily add touch-helpful tooltips without some major changes.

Cheers

Pip

[DonCzirr]

Thanks.

I know that Beamdog on their successful ports of the Infinity Engine games to mobile had included a help button which led to a context sensitive help screen based upon when the help button was pushed.

Quite convenient and helpful to achieve that goal.

I could see that working well with a series of war game movement and control icons.

[zakblood]

me 2 pence on the question is one of costs,

one reasons i wouldn't but one tbh

entry level, next to useless for games or anything else much apart from word etc and net access

Microsoft Surface Pro 4 - 128GB / Intel Core m3 (No Pen) 4GB ram£635.00 incl. VAT

low end

Microsoft Surface Pro 4 - 128GB / Intel Core i5 £760.00 incl. VAT or with 8GB ram instead of 4GB £1,099.00 incl. VAT

more useful, more costs

Microsoft Surface Pro 4 - 256GB / Intel Core i7 8GB ram £1,099.00 incl. VAT or 16GB ram £1,549.00 incl. VAT

High end and silly money

Microsoft Surface Pro 4 - 512GB / Intel Core i7 with 16GB of ram £1,529.00 incl. VAT

Microsoft Surface Pro 4 - 1TB / Intel Core i7 with 16GB of ram £1,869.00 incl. VAT

all these have the same, small 12.3-inch high-resolution PixelSense display with win 10 installed, and for me, you get a lot more from a laptop than you will in any of these, no matter how much you pay, for start, none of these uses a gaming card

m3: Intel HD graphics 515
i5: Intel HD graphics 520
i7: Intel Iris graphics

so while some are ok others are next to useless, and i'd have a laptop with a dedi card any day, with a larger 17" screen for one and pay about the same price as these quoted for the rights of the same CPU speed and core spec, so it's each to there own i'd guess.

compared to a laptop, custom made and built from scratch

Optimus Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080) in all
cpu Intel® Core™ i5 Quad Core Processor 7300HQ (2.5GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo)
memory 8GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 8GB)
video NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1TB SSHD 1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 2.5" SSHD - UP TO 5X FASTER THAN HDD!

all with windows 10 £838.00inc VAT and Delivery

Optimus Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 7700HQ (2.8GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo)
16GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1TB SSHD 1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 2.5" SSHD - UP TO 5X FASTER THAN HDD!

all with windows 10 £971.00inc VAT and Delivery

or slightly better

Proteus Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 7700HQ (2.8GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo)
16GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 2.5" SSHD - UP TO 5X FASTER THAN HDD!

all with windows 10 at £1,200.00inc VAT and Delivery

or better and faster still

Optimus Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 7700HQ (2.8GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo)
32GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 16GB)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 Ti - 4.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
960GB KINGSTON UV400 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (540MB/R, 500MB/W)

all with windows 10 at £1,426.00inc VAT and Delivery

and still under budget

Octane Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-7700k (4.2GHz) 8MB Cache
16GB Corsair 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 2.5" SSHD - UP TO 5X FASTER THAN HDD!

all with windows 10 at £1,566.00inc VAT and Delivery

so better, faster and cheaper and of much better overall use in games, and tbh anything else

[VPaulus]

Laptops are bigger and can't be use as tablets.
I can run some games in my Surface 3 low end. Of course I will not run 3D games, for those I will have the desktop.
I like a lot my Surface 3, The only thing that I dislike is the battery.

[zakblood]

another reason why imo a laptop is better, it's made to last longer, with most modern ones having good battery use and much longer than they used to have, and almost all now days can have a spare, which for me means almost 24 hours of mobile gaming, and lets face it, that's as long as anyone can be without power etc now days

Up to 9 hours for a surface pro 4, with about the same for a good gaming laptop, but as i can carry another spare, or 2 even, i get longer

[DonCzirr]

With a laptop you still need keyboard real estate - not favorable on the bus etc.

For aging fellows like myself, the mouse pad on the Laptop is very annoying.

I can't comment on the actual power and functionality of the Windows Surface devices yet - but I know the newer version of iPADs can run PC quality games quite well.

XCOM, Rome Total War, Commander The Great War etc all work quite well.

VPaulus seems to be doing well with non-3D games on his device.

Given that - I can survive with not playing Combat Mission on the mobile device.

The future is mobile - not a trend back to larger, less convenient form factors ... else we'd be heading back towards a world full of mainframes

[VPaulus]

Most of the times, I use the Surface for reading pdf files, browsing the internet and for playing one or two games.
It's the ideal device for doing all the stuff I wanted to do when I'm far away from the desk.
Further, when I need to travel I use it as a laptop as I can attach the cover (keyboard), and can do all my work from there.
Since I have bought it, I've never used again my laptop.
Obviously I still need a desktop for the serious work and for more serious gaming. A laptop or a tablet will never replace my desktop.
My only concern is the battery on my model (it seems to be better in subsequent models). My only regret was not having spent the extra dough for the Pro version.
Still, I agree there are very expensive devices, and in most games, the UI isn't designed with touch screen in mind. On that respect the laptops are better. But I can't work with them in couch.

[zakblood]

iv'e found out at cost, as i have more than a few desktop replacements systems, and in the end, none ever did what they set out to do either.

mobile gaming, eg phone and tablets imo as yet still haven't got to the stage where i can do anything other than most basic of games and the screens too small for my eyes still to see clearly, the older i get, the larger screen i need and want, so even a simple satnav now days is on a 6" device, unlike the 4" i use to use, with my reading tablet going from 6" to now 10" and my gaming tablets from a simple android tablet to a fully windows device, which is hardly ever used tbh, as it's not as good as my old 6 year old 17" laptop still, and with my gaming needing more and more power and space each and every year, my gaming laptop and gaming rig and have got to a point where i can buy twice the power each year, and almost 1/3rd to a half the cost for replacement, where as the tablets just don't atm do for me any justice in the extra value vr's cost for what hardware they give me as yet, maybe one day, but can't see it any time soon i'm sorry to say, as of yet at any tech show, the future isn't happening i'm sorry to say.

when i can have and use a tablet that gives me the same power and level of tech my laptop does, eg mobile and keyboard dock when needed, with a decent size display and enough use battery wise to warranty the purchase, i'll buy another.

i've used a Ipad, all makes and models, not impressed, played with the Windows Surface Pro, and again, more cons than pro's imo.

Asus ZenPad 3S 10
Google Pixel C
Samsung Galaxy Tab S3
NVIDIA Shield K1
Asus Transformer Book T100HA
Lenovo Yoga Tablet 3

and more than a few others, my m8's got a tech hardware shop, so kind of gets everything so have played with and tested more than a few tbh, and as of yet, not one made me think, yes thank god at last, one that can do everything i need and want and is a good all rounder, price, weight, power and battery life and the ability to play games, which most fail on with the ones i loaded.

so in a few years maybe, but like 3d glasses, 12K screens, VR gaming, it's just not there atm, so i add gaming tablets to the list, imo (in my opinion)

[DonCzirr]

Most of the times, I use the Surface for reading pdf files, browsing the internet and for playing one or two games.
It's the ideal device for doing all the stuff I wanted to do when I'm far away from the desk.
Further, when I need to travel I use it as a laptop as I can attach the cover (keyboard), and can do all my work from there.
Since I have bought it, I've never used again my laptop.
Obviously I still need a desktop for the serious work and for more serious gaming. A laptop or a tablet will never replace my desktop.
My only concern is the battery on my model (it seems to be better in subsequent models). My only regret was not having spent the extra dough for the Pro version.
Still, I agree there are very expensive devices, and in most games, the UI isn't designed with touch screen in mind. On that respect the laptops are better. But I can't work with them in couch.

I think as time goes by, the prices will fall and become more reasonable.

Even Apple's latest iPAD 2017 - which is sort of a iPAD Air 3, came down a lot in price in order to stimulate sales.

The part of the comment from Vpaulus that I highlighted above is what I am interested in.

Will Slitherine start making that a part of their Beta / Testing program?

Would they be open to it?

I might be inclined to make the extra spend on such a device and participate in Beta tests if I knew the leading wargaming vendor would support it in future releases.

[VPaulus]

It's up to the game's developers, not Slitherine, if they want to design the UI with also the touch screen in their minds.
When the games come to beta testing, usually the UI is already designed. Otherwise we would have to have alpha testing periods.
IMO, it's also quite hard to have a good UI design for the touch screen and at the same for the keyboard/mouse.

[DonCzirr]

Well, I think BA2 was a good example of making somewhat complex controls work quite well on touch screen:



Ranged firing

Choice of Close Assaults / or short range firing

Suppression

Smoke

Unit facing

Loading / Unloading units on transports




These all worked like a charm for me on the touch screen.