Potzblitz V25.0 OCT 18th 2024

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Robotron
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

Zombo wrote:first, spotted Russian small garrisons in each northern Russian city up to Pskov and Minsk moving from their city (why?), even if widely off recon range
I did not code the AI files, and can't help with that problem as of now.
Zombo wrote:Austrian artillery still making 2PP damage on Belgrade
See "Serbia too strong" later.
Zombo wrote:Russian navy (on the previous game too) making suicidal one ship strikes, allowing it to be destroyed piecemeal
Stupid AI? Contact Slitherene! I've NO TIME and NO DESIRE anymore to fix their broken AI code. I'm sure my mod might have prolonged this game's lifetime for quite a few months and earned Slith quite a few bucks from people that have bought the game just to play my mod. Just a simple pat on the back from those guys would have been all I'd want to ask, but nothing. I WON'T divert any more of my precious spare time to fix AI deficiencies. I will also cease any further development of this mod once it is stable.
Zombo wrote:In my opinion:Serbs too strong on the offensive
So, your point about 2PP loss from AH arty on Belgrade is moot.
Zombo wrote:Too easy to destroy a full 10-points German garrison in Alsace-Lorraine with three French concentric attacks, would definitely improve German entrenchment level there
Just send a German Army Corps there then.
Zombo wrote:Submarines become "yellow" too quickly
Just build some more, they are cheap as dirt now at 15pp. Will reduce upkeep PP to 1. Deal?
Zombo wrote:However, I would increase the cost of optional events a little (or reduce the per-turn allotment) because I feel you can get too many options early in the game, and that reduces the "dilemma" aspect that should be more excruciating. Here I kinda manged to buy everything I wanted + a good bit of extra ammo, which is a bit underwhelming
Well, you won't be guaranteed to get all the events you wanted and buy a bit of extra stuff in every game for sure.
Zombo wrote:HOWEVER, (I don't know if it's feasible in your code), I would REALLY NOT increase diplo cost by one when you pick the "choose none" option (still spend the points of course) so it would make a "pass" more interesting, wanting for something better to come up
"Wanting for something better to come up" is not my aim of design. Your proposal about not increasing cost after choosing "none" is a good one though.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

:shock:

dude, you're a little cranky today

I was not criticizing, just offering my perspective, trying to contribute constructive input

Ok, so nothing more about the AI, I promise. It doesn't really concern me anyway, I play MP.

About Serbia, I would say that two wrongs doesn't make one right: that is, artillery making unrealistic damage on Belgrade may somewhat compensate, in effect, for Serbian unrealistic offensive power, but it's still unrealistic. I had the impression that realism was the kind of argument you were receptive to, since it seems to be the whole point of the mod.
+ that strat bombing-like arty damage may apply to situations elsewhere in the game where nothing compensates for it.

Regarding Alsace-Lorraine, the problem is that as the Germans you start with a Reserve Corps in there and the French can breach very quickly. Diverting an Army corps certainly does the trick, but that means that right at the start of the war you have to redeploy an army corps from the right-wing, which would have SERIOUS consequences ( or from the East, with equally serious consequences and a possibility of arriving too late). This feels very awkward from an historical perspective, especially that historically the French were unable to achieve even marginal gains against the Germans there (adequate represented by reserve corps) and the Germans even managed to counterattack successfully! - this is very far from the current in-game balance of forces. One of the determining factors was that the Germans had been fortifying the area for quite a while (in addition to poor French tactics, of course), this is why I thought of increasing the entrench level

I'll dare another "humble opinion" about the ammo stockpile generic event (something tells me I should keep that for some other day...)
Honestly, I feel it's a little anti-WW1. Scarcity of ammo, managing the stock and eventual running out - and as a consequence the offensive operations petering out - was characteristic of (early, at least) WW1 offensives. So popping ammo out of a hat like that seems to allow players to bypass a fundamental aspect of offensive planning.
As a mere and innocent "suggestion", I was thinking of something more like "Pressuring the Workforce", which could either add a +1 per turn ammo (no PP investment: more working hours, not more industries) or add a % to the economic mobilization, or both, or the choice between both. The drawback would be a morale loss and a increased chance of internal turmoil once these events loom on the horizon. It should have diminishing returns, of course, with possible inflating drawbacks, if selected multiple times

Similarly, the generic event adding manpower to the pool has no effect until the very end of the game, so it's very unappealing ( or maybe when reaching those coloured thresholds - but adding manpower should accelerate degradation of infantry quality, not delay it). I was thinking of something that would provide immediate, emergency, manpower, at the cost of morale and a corresponding worsening of the quality threshold. Of course, it should have a different effect for major powers and minor countries (not the same mobilization capabilities) , so maybe two extra reserve corps/ one extra reserve corps OR one reserve corps straight away / one reserve corps in the production queue). (The mobilization of the Landwehr is a good example of this). BTW, maybe Russia should be considered a minor country in this case.
This would make it an appealing option, a trade off between urgency and efficient long-term manpower management, a classic military dilemma

patriotism is just fine :wink:

Peace, man, peace. We are all brothers.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

Zombo wrote: I'll dare another "humble opinion" about the ammo stockpile generic event (something tells me I should keep that for some other day...)
Honestly, I feel it's a little anti-WW1. Scarcity of ammo, managing the stock and eventual running out - and as a consequence the offensive operations petering out - was characteristic of (early, at least) WW1 offensives. So popping ammo out of a hat like that seems to allow players to bypass a fundamental aspect of offensive planning.
im begging you, dont blaspheme

when aicrafts are nerfed, arts are our only hope

such event is just lesser robbery than choose none, more than anything else :lol:

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

@robotron

what about each turn player got just one choice out of three? there wont be too many of them

together with some antiloadsave protection it could be fine compromise

and then there wont be two games alike anymore
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

Zombo wrote:About Serbia, I would say that two wrongs doesn't make one right: that is, artillery making unrealistic damage on Belgrade may somewhat compensate, in effect, for Serbian unrealistic offensive power, but it's still unrealistic. I had the impression that the realism was the kind of argument you were receptive to, since it seems to be the whole point of the mod.
+ that strat bombing-like arty damage may apply to situations elsewhere in the game where nothing compensates for it.
1. This mod's first goal is to introduce a certain degree of variability to the game, realism is a secondary goal. There are many events that are quite unrealistic to say the least (sending Goeben to Pacific, German right of passage through Belgium etc.) but were added to allow for some alternate history.
2. About arty dealing too much PP damage:
arty has always caused that much PP damage since vanilla V1.66 and I'm a little bit surprised that this suddenly becomes an issue but I will reduce stratattack to 10, so only one PP damage will be caused. Hydrp-pneumatic howitzer tech will then add +8 so the original value of 18 will be met.
3. About Serbia's unrealistic offensive power:
in vanilla V1.66 Serbia had THREE army corps instead of one, 420 manpower and 28 PP to start with while Belgrade had 14PP.
Now Serbia has 1 army corps, 250 manpower and 21 - 38 PP at start while Belgrade has 7PP plus Entente AI starts with a rather strong Putnik with a defense value of 4.
The way the combat routines work in CTGW means that raising a unit's defense value will also increase its ability to deal damage on the offense. That may seem strange but that's the way it was implemented and rewriting the whole combat script and AI pre-combat kill/loss ratio analysis that relies on that principle is out of the question.

If i were to further reduce Serbia's strength then Belgrade won't be defendable at all after a few rounds of getting hammered by arty. The "strong" Serbia will also force Austria to divert units from Galicia, allowing for a historical Russian invasion scenario there instead of Russia meeting a wall of AH units.

Zombo wrote:Regarding Alsace-lorraine, the problem is that as the Germans you start with a Reserve Corps in there and the French can breach very quickly. Diverting an Army corps certainly does the trick, but that means that right at the start of the war you have to redeploy an army corps from the right-wing, which would have SERIOUS consequences ( or from the East, with equally serious consequences and a possibility of arriving too late). This feels very awkward, especially that historically the French were unable to achieve even marginal gains against the Germans there (adequate represented by reserve corps) and the Germans even managed to counterattack successfully! - this is very far from the current in-game balance of forces. Whazt I think makes the difference, is that the Germans had been fortifying the area for quite a while (in addition to poor French tactics), this is why I thought of increasing the entrench level
You were referring to a Reserve Corps getting attacked by three French Army Corps, so I take it you mean the one selected in the picture?
Clipboard5.jpg
Clipboard5.jpg (43.35 KiB) Viewed 3891 times
Well, that's an easy one: retreat that unit from the salient back to Strasbourg after having made space there. You could use the other one to strengthen the Eastern front or keep it in reserve to switch places with damaged Reserve Corps in that region. Eventually you will need another Reserve Corps there as one won't be enough to cycle in and out of the front after some turns as the French will deal a lot of damage.
Zombo wrote:I'll dare another "humble opinion" about the ammo stockpile generic event (something tells me I should keep that for some other day...)
Honestly, I fell it's a little anti-WW1. Scarcity of ammo, managing the stock and eventual running out - and as a consequence the offensive operations petering out - was characteristic of (early, at least) WW1 offensives. So popping ammo out of a hat like that seems to allow players to bypass a fundamental aspect of offensive planning.
The "Stockpile Ammunition" event is a one-time-only event, generating 4D6 ammo once per game. It will be replaced by the "Supplementary ammo" event generating a measly 2D3 ammo from then on. If players deem it helpful to squander their diplo points on generating ammo, I won't stop them, but building ammo factories is surely a better investment.
Zombo wrote:As a mere and innocent "suggestion", I was thinking of something like "Pressuring the Workforce", which could either add a +1 per turn ammo (no PP investment: more working hours, not more industries) or add a % to the economic mobilization, or both, or the choice between both. The drawback would be a morale loss and a increased chance of internal turmoil once these events are applicable. It should have diminishing returns, of course, with possible inflating drawbacks, if selected multiple times
That's exactly what the "Women in the workforce" events do for every major nation.
Zombo wrote:Similarly, the generic event adding manpower to the pool has no effect until the very end of the game, so it's kinda unappealing ( or maybe when reaching those coloured thresholds - but adding manpower should accelerate degradation of infantry quality, not delay it). I was thinking of something that would provide immediate, emergency, manpower, at the cost of morale and a corresponding worsening of the quality threshold. of course, it should have a different effect for major powers and minor countries, so maybe two extra reserve corps/ one extra reserve corps OR one reserve corps straight away / one reserve corps in the production queue). (The mobilization of the Landwehr is a good example of this). this would make it an appealing option, a trade off between urgency and efficient long-term manpower management, a classic military dilemma
I'm surprised you are having qualms about producing ammo "out of the hat" but suggest doing the same with units. Anyway, to make the "Volunteer recruits" event more desirable I'll raise the MP output and have it double the per-turn growthrate AND have it discarded if not played before end of 1914 to be replaced with the less powerful "New Recruits" event.
Zombo wrote:patriotism is just fine :wink:
While I'm at it, I'll have that discarded too (if not played before) if the first annual morale check favors the enemy. For the "Patriotic movement" event I'll add a chance to suffer a collapse point then (out of sheer spite) if the 2D6 roll is lower than 4 or higher then 10. :P
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

Okay okay I surrender

regarding ammo out of the hat vs units out of the hat, it's just because you could always draft younger/older classes, not yet fully trained, or whatever other emergency measure, while you can't just go scavenge for forgotten ammo
and about the corps, I was not considering retreat, since historically the Germans had no difficulty in holding their ground, as I sad, they even counterattacked

anyway, doesn't matter. Just had another try with the Germans, it all works just fine, and it's very enjoyable. Looking forward to 4.7 and be humiliated by Nehi

btw, maybe there's a little problem with the "Hoffmann" event, as that following "special devastating" attack ( one inf with von François vs one Russian inf) was showing a 7-1 estimate and resulted in a 1-1. Or maybe I was just unlucky.

( what about calling the diplo points "strategy" points ? most events have little to do with diplomacy, but thy're all related to global strategy)
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

Zombo wrote: btw, maybe there's a little problem with the "Hoffmann" event, as that following "special devastating" attack ( one inf with von François vs one Russian inf) was showing a 7-1 estimate and resulted in a 1-1. Or maybe I was just unlucky.
then u were incredibly lucky, ive got infatry boosted by hindeburg and hoffman vs untrenched uncommanded garrison 8:0, ended 0:0 8)
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

Zombo wrote:btw, maybe there's a little problem with the "Hoffmann" event, as that following "special devastating" attack ( one inf with von François vs one Russian inf) was showing a 7-1 estimate and resulted in a 1-1. Or maybe I was just unlucky.
Yup that was faulty: the attack bonus was used up as soon as the combat analysis was shown. Already fixed.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

There a little something I think I am missing

Isn't it always preferable to pick one of the displayed options, rather than pick choose none, since your points are spent anyway, and the random diplo effect is likely to be of very little impact on the game, if at all?
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

Zombo wrote:There a little something I think I am missing

Isn't it always preferable to pick one of the displayed options, rather than pick choose none, since your points are spent anyway, and the random diplo effect is likely to be of very little impact on the game, if at all?
heureka, but some events are a hell trap, like that ones including collapse points
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

Zombo wrote:There a little something I think I am missing

Isn't it always preferable to pick one of the displayed options, rather than pick choose none, since your points are spent anyway, and the random diplo effect is likely to be of very little impact on the game, if at all?
Yes. Usually any non-generic event should be more useful than "choose none". Later in the game, when around 40 or more diplo points will be randomly distributed as INFLUENCE then "choose none" may become a worthwhile option, if none of the events suit you at the moment because:
1. the number of neutrals will decrease the longer the game takes
2. nations that have already surrendered will not be targeted by the distribution process
3. certain nations will never be targeted (Italy, Arabia, Berber Tribesmen, Red Finland, Egypt)

That leaves 13 nations as permitted targets, including Bulgaria, Portugal and Romania who are usually the first to join the war. Maybe Sweden has joined via event or Switzerland has been attacked via Rupprecht plan too? That would leave 8 nations. Deduct USA and you have 7 nations that receive a random spread of 40 diplo points as influence PER TURN. This is important to Germany since neutrals will stop supplying it with food at certain alignment thresholds, making the hunger crisis event more likely even without the British blockade being in effect.

Even if your alliance has not INFLUENCE superiority at any given neutral, the % chance for the enemy's alliance to perform a successful influence shift will be lowered by the number of your alliance's influence.
You also get bonus diplo points for having the greater TOTAL INFLUENCE sum spread over all the neutrals combined and every successful influence test will yield better results.

Of course specifically targeting a neutral via the INFLUENCE button is way more effective.

nehi wrote:some events are a hell trap, like that ones including collapse points
Which ones do you have in mind?
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

more input; choosing the Goeben event triggered French convoy interception, great loss of life, etc, before France and Germany were actually at war.

forbidden Race to the Sea hexes is a great idea, but why isn't Calais comprised in them? 'cause that kinda defeats their purpose a bit ( I make Calais a primary objective and just bypass the forbidden hexes - it just makes its capture a little less easy)

Robo, no opinion on lowering aircraft range? fog of war makes more interesting games, and it could make the intelligence option more appealing
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

nehi wrote:some events are a hell trap, like that ones including collapse points
Which ones do you have in mind?[/quote]

one with such describe like sum of both morale and compensate lower ones with higher ones

and some with boosting production

cede territories to italy... came to my mind now (this is maybe worth of it)

btw. france is like boomerang, i understand first comeback, but then its rejoining war again and again and again (each turn), until some else nation is in etente

even it has no cities or units anymore
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

Zombo wrote:more input; choosing the Goeben event triggered French convoy interception, great loss of life, etc, before France and Germany were actually at war.
Fixed.
Zombo wrote:forbidden Race to the Sea hexes is a great idea, but why isn't Calais comprised in them? 'cause that kinda defeats their purpose a bit ( I make Calais a primary objective and just bypass the forbidden hexes - it just makes its capture a little less easy)
I don't want to include Calais, since it's your own decision whether to attack and capture Calais, thereby taking away units from the main drive on Paris. Any human player will move an army corps to Calais to prevent you from doing that. As for the AI, well if the "BEF" event is not played soon enough there is not much I can do besides magically warping an army corps there.
Zombo wrote:Robo, no opinion on lowering aircraft range? fog of war makes more interesting games, and it could make the intelligence option more appealing
LOS and range 4 for fighters is the minimum or else the AI will huddle the front line with them.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

nehi wrote: btw. france is like boomerang, i understand first comeback, but then its rejoining war again and again and again (each turn), until some else nation is in etente
even it has no cities or units anymore
Where's savegame?
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

Regarding the Calais thing: I'm not familiar enough with 4.0, but in the previous version the German player could be 99% sure that against competent play he wouldn't be able to take Paris. Calais on the contrary is within reach, and is a very interesting alternate target. So I think if taking Paris is still hard in 4.0 (and I definitely think it should be), aiming for Calais instead is a very valid, safer, strategy. but the implies the hindsight that precisely the Race to the Sea thing aims at preventing, since, obviously, historically the Germans didn't know they would never get to Paris and would have to settle for a long attritional war.
I know you mentioned that human players would move an army corps in Calais, but that doesn't prevent it from being a primary objective of the German initial onslaught, or even, for all that matters, to be capture if enough force ( artillery and all) is used.
LOS and range 4 for fighters is the minimum or else the AI will huddle the front line with them.
Can it be changed for MP?
Pleeeease :wink:

(or, if it's feasible, 3 for human players and 4 or 5 for IA)
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Robotron »

(or, if it's feasible, 3 for human players and 4 or 5 for IA)

Not possible. All I can offer is a separate MP unit stats file you'll have to copypaste over the existing SP unit stats file.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

Robotron wrote: Where's savegame?
it happened in my first cp game, where are three saves, but i postopened it now to anihilated france, still in the game

it happened again, when ive tried suiss way, unfortunately no save from it, it was a bit different, anytime i shut downed france, it showed in diplo window with red counter at zero and joined next turn again, unfinite cycle until last entente except france was in the game

1 comeback is enough i guess 8)

ruprecht is interesting, buts impossible to reach paris in time, even its quite easy way when britain is out of war for a long time and russia enter was postopened, moltke was sacked, maybe verdun could replace paris in this scenario
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

All I can offer is a separate MP unit stats file you'll have to copypaste over the existing SP unit stats file.
For both human opponent's in MP to have an air-range of 3? I'll gladly take it, thank you (and zeps 4)

Do both opponents need to replace the file or just the hosting player?

BTW, could you explain briefly how the intel game works? what does the intel 0 mean? what are the implications of cypher broken, what does cypher unknown mean in game terms, etc? thanks

also, I tried "influence" on Sweden twice in a row, but the gauge did not move. Is it a possible result? is the result implemented next turn?
Last edited by Zombo on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by nehi »

Zombo wrote: For both human opponent's in MP to have an air-range of 3? I'll gladly take it, thank you
i dont see difference between 3 or 4, just cosmetics
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Re: POTZBLITZ V4.6 (beta), JUNE 22th

Post by Zombo »

i dont see difference between 3 or 4, just cosmetics
the difference is A LOT more hexes covered, a lot deeper in the enemy's territory, so no, not just cosmetic

but if it's no difference to you, surely you won't mind implementing it
Last edited by Zombo on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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