Neodamodeis

[BoBb]

Hi all,
I'm new to FoG.I've trawled thru the Forums and can find no mention of the above.
Our group are planning on some historical refights based around OOB's in Phil Sabin's book.
Some questions have arisen in regard to Spartan's,how does one represent the Neodamodeis in FoG???
Are they average???
Are they drilled/undrilled???
Also,are the later classical period mixed Mora out of the question under FoG rules???
If so,how are they represented???
Thanks in anticipation
Bob

[caliban66]

Though having only access to beta list, I would say that periokoi are represented by the "drilled" upgrade avaible for non-spartan citizens in spartan armies.
*EDIT* Well, neodamodeis should be the rest of undrilled hoplites in spartan armies. They were use just in case of need, and so, once you get the maximum number of spartan citizens and periokoi, you can still field some undrilled neodamodeis.

[BoBb]

Thanks for that.
There was another part to my enquiry:-

What about representing the mixed Mora of the later classical period of the 4th Century?

[ars_belli]

I don't own a copy of Immortal Fire, but I would think that early 4th c. Spartan morai comprising a mixture of homoioi, perioikoi, and neodamodeis should be somewhat less effective than earlier units consisting of Spartiates alone. In FoG terms, this could be represented either by rating them as Average rather than Superior, or as Undrilled rather than Drilled.

Cheers,
Scott

[BoBb]

Are there any other thoughts on this subject.I pose the question,because the current FoG rules do not cover the latter Spartan Army.From my research it appears universally accepted that the 4th Century Spartan Army was made up of mixed Morai,composed of Peers,Inferiors,Mothax and Perioikoi.Would these rate as superior still in FoG rules??
And,by the by,what would the Sciritae be???
I know at 1st Mantinea they would rate as medium infantry,but in the 4th Century,with FoG rules are they Peltasts???
I ask as I note Hamippoi are not covered in FoG rules at all.
Your thoughts please.

[nikgaukroger]

In FoG mixed type BGs are rated as a sort of average - you classify them the way you think best represents their actual performance. So in the your example if you think they justify Superior make them so and if not don't.

[ars_belli]

From my research it appears universally accepted that the 4th Century Spartan Army was made up of mixed Morai,composed of Peers,Inferiors,Mothax and Perioikoi.Would these rate as superior still in FoG rules??

Personally, I would rate mixed morai comprised of any combination of homoioi, perioikoi, neodamodeis, and/or mothakes as Average. But as Nik indicated, it really comes down to your interpretation of how the historical abilities of such units would best be represented in the rules. The FoG army lists are a bit more flexible in that regard than those for some other rule sets.

And,by the by,what would the Sciritae be??? I know at 1st Mantinea they would rate as medium infantry,but in the 4th Century,with FoG rules are they Peltasts??? I ask as I note Hamippoi are not covered in FoG rules at all.

According to the sources I have read, following Mantinea the skiritai were asked to abandon their hoplite panoplies, and so become either hamippoi or peltastes. As you noted, there are no special rules in FoG for representing mixed formations of cavalry and light foot, such as those employed by the Greeks, Numidians, early Germans and others. Nevertheless, such formations can be easily and accurately represented, simply by using BGs of Cv and LF in close coordination. Given that, rating the post-Mantinaea skiritai as peltastes would appear to be historically accurate, IMHO.

Cheers,
Scott