Points Question

[BrianC]

Hi All,

I was just curious, when you play an 800 point game or any point amount for that matter what is the upper limit allowed? Is it 800 points, no higher? 797, 789 etc, or can you go over slightly 802, 809? When people play in non tournament games, do you agree to be close to 800 points? What do they do in tournaments?

When we play we try to get it close but as long as our armies are within about 10 points or so either way we don't worry about it.

Thanks

Brian

[daleivan]

Hi All,

I was just curious, when you play an 800 point game or any point amount for that matter what is the upper limit allowed? Is it 800 points, no higher? 797, 789 etc, or can you go over slightly 802, 809? When people play in non tournament games, do you agree to be close to 800 points? What do they do in tournaments?

When we play we try to get it close but as long as our armies are within about 10 points or so either way we don't worry about it.

Thanks

Brian

In our non-tournament games we try to not go over the limit--thus being under by a few points is not uncommon with us.

Dale

[babyshark]

In your own games, of course, you can do what you like as far as 10 points here or there. In a tournament setting, however, 800 points (or whatever the assigned value is) is a hard cap.

Marc

[BrianC]

Thanks for that guys. I just wanted to verify what the tournament rules were as well as what others do in their private games. Living in Western Canada all we can play is private games as there are no tournaments nearby. Hopefully that will change, there must be more western Canadian FOG players around. Maybe once I am able to attend a real tournament I can practice by using the hard cap 800 point limit.

Thanks again

Brian

[Redpossum]

Thanks for that guys. I just wanted to verify what the tournament rules were as well as what others do in their private games. Living in Western Canada all we can play is private games as there are no tournaments nearby. Hopefully that will change, there must be more western Canadian FOG players around. Maybe once I am able to attend a real tournament I can practice by using the hard cap 800 point limit.

Thanks again

Brian

If it's any consolation, the USA west of the Rockies seems to be a total dead zone as far as FoG interest goes

I've yet to see or hear from a fellow Californian in these forums, although I do seem to vaguely recall something about something in the Oregon/Washington area. Makes sense, it rains all the damn time up there.

[andy63]

Hi All,

I was just curious, when you play an 800 point game or any point amount for that matter what is the upper limit allowed? Is it 800 points, no higher? 797, 789 etc, or can you go over slightly 802, 809? When people play in non tournament games, do you agree to be close to 800 points? What do they do in tournaments?

When we play we try to get it close but as long as our armies are within about 10 points or so either way we don't worry about it.

Thanks

Brian

In tournaments Brian you can not go over even by one point.

Andy.

[daleivan]

If it's any consolation, the USA west of the Rockies seems to be a total dead zone as far as FoG interest goes

I've yet to see or hear from a fellow Californian in these forums, although I do seem to vaguely recall something about something in the Oregon/Washington area. Makes sense, it rains all the damn time up there.

We do have some action here in the Pacific Northwest--but no organized tournaments that I am aware of yet. Hopefully we will have some at next year's Enfilade.

As for raining here all the time--that's what we want you guys down south to think

Cheers,

Dale

[chrisrivers]

There is a group of us in the Seattle area also. We are still gauging if there is enough interest to make Harborstorm viable again. For those who do not know, Harborstorm used to be the Pacific NW DBM championship. We will be switching to FOG once we determine if there is enough people. The problem with putting one on at Enfilade is that a tournament would take a whole day to complete minimum (assuming 3 rounds). More rounds would require a second day. Most people do not want to use up their whole weekend playing one game.

Chris

[babyshark]

I've yet to see or hear from a fellow Californian in these forums, although I do seem to vaguely recall something about something in the Oregon/Washington area. Makes sense, it rains all the damn time up there.

There are a fair few players in the L.A. area, AFAIK. They can be found on the North American FoG yahoo group for sure. Perhaps not on this forum.

Marc

[BrianC]

I might have to make a trip to the western US next year for a tournament if things work out. Do you still need to take your shoes off before entering?

Brian

[willb]

Thanks for that guys. I just wanted to verify what the tournament rules were as well as what others do in their private games. Living in Western Canada all we can play is private games as there are no tournaments nearby. Hopefully that will change, there must be more western Canadian FOG players around. Maybe once I am able to attend a real tournament I can practice by using the hard cap 800 point limit.

Thanks again

Brian

If it's any consolation, the USA west of the Rockies seems to be a total dead zone as far as FoG interest goes

I've yet to see or hear from a fellow Californian in these forums, although I do seem to vaguely recall something about something in the Oregon/Washington area. Makes sense, it rains all the damn time up there.

check out the historical miniature gaming society pacific southwest yahoo group. there have been a number of games in the los angeles area. http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/HMGS-PSW_Southwest/ The San Francisco Bay area has had some games also, though they are a little far from San Diego.

[Redpossum]

I might have to make a trip to the western US next year for a tournament if things work out. Do you still need to take your shoes off before entering?

Brian

ROTFLMAO, this is actually funny on about three different levels, two of which are highly politically incorrect

I knew I liked you, Brian.

OK, guys, thanks for the suggestions. I hadn't thought to look to other forums than here. That sounds stupid when I write it down, but there ya go. I guess I have this naive assumption that the designer/publisher's own forums are the heart of any community.

Los Angeles isn't impossible. I've driven up there for cons before. Gods, I can remember refereeing a Car Wars tournament up in The Big Stink back when Steve Jackson's GURPS was new, that was, err, 1981?

Sodom-by-the-Sea is totally out of the question

Provincial rivalries aside, it's worth remembering that LA is a much larger city; the "greater Los Angeles conurbation" has a population of 13 million plus. That's compared to roughly 3.5 million in all of San Diego county.

[Polkovnik]

Going back to the original question, I think even for a friendly game it should be an absolute limit. If you are playing 800 points but are allowed to go over by 10 points then you are actually playing to a 810 point limit. If your army comes out at just over 800 points, then remove a couple of cheap bases from a BG to get under the limit. By going over the agreed limit, you get an unfair advantage.

[Probert]

In a friendly game it is no big deal to have forces of different values. Very few historical engagements were fought by truly equal forces.

[hammy]

In a friendly game it is no big deal to have forces of different values. Very few historical engagements were fought by truly equal forces.

Absolutely, in a friendly game where you are playing with armies that really fought each other doing some research and setting up a historical scenario makes for some very enjoyable gaming even if the 'points' aren't equal.

[Polkovnik]

Yes but that's completely different to an equal points game. Also you might deliberatley have uneven points as a handicap to a more experienced player.
But if you're playing 800 points , whether in a tournament or a "friendly" (not that most tournaments aren't !), then the 800 points should be an absolute upper limit.
Otherwise let's say someone uses a 807 point army which includes a BG of 6 poor mob. They could have cut out that BG and come in at 795 points. With it they have an unfair advantage - they are effectively increasing the attrition points by 1 for free if you allow armies to be 800 points or thereabouts.
I know it's not as easy as in DBM to get the exact points value, so you have to accept that sometimes your army will be under the points total, and you will have wasted a few points.

[hammy]

Yes but that's completely different to an equal points game. Also you might deliberatley have uneven points as a handicap to a more experienced player.
But if you're playing 800 points , whether in a tournament or a "friendly" (not that most tournaments aren't !), then the 800 points should be an absolute upper limit.
Otherwise let's say someone uses a 807 point army which includes a BG of 6 poor mob. They could have cut out that BG and come in at 795 points. With it they have an unfair advantage - they are effectively increasing the attrition points by 1 for free if you allow armies to be 800 points or thereabouts.
I know it's not as easy as in DBM to get the exact points value, so you have to accept that sometimes your army will be under the points total, and you will have wasted a few points.

Agreed, most of my lists are just under, I think I have a few that are 5 points light but generally none lower than that.

There was a rule in IIRC 7th edition where you could go over the total as long is it was by less than the cheapest element in your army. That is not part of FoG. A tournament point limit is just that a hard limit.

[BrianC]

Currently we play friendly private games so being right at or below 800 points does not matter much as long as we are close point wise. Our last game was 756 vs about 754. We were looking for forces of a certain make up on both sides and 700 or 800 points did not cut it. Everyone was ok with that. As it turned out I made some changes very late at night and took away a cavalry BG from the Carthaginian side which gave the Gauls an extra cavalry BG as I forgot to remove theirs, but the Carthaginians still won the day IMO. The game was not over and the attrition was 4 losses to the Gauls and 2 to the Carthaginians. But by then the Gaul line was broken.

Hopefully if we can get some FOG tournaments here in Canada it would be nice to try a 800 point army. I am considering running a demo game at our next con in Calgary next fall. Hopefully that might generate some interest.