Deployment & Exit

[Erik2]

Welcome to the scenario creation business, Keith.
Always nice with more players taking the plunge.

[keithp]

Thanks. Very interesting but a challenge too!

It seems that with the Commando units, several things don not work - there is supply they don't extend the are of control, but also they do not take control of primary or secondary points. Not sure why, but if I replace them with an infantry unit, they do.

All a bit strange, so at the end it says draw, even though they hold the primary site!

[Horst]

It's typical with noSupply units that they also have the noCapture trait. You would have to work with Check-on-Hex conditions to change the ownerships accordingly.

[bebro]

Ok, I pieced together some help thingie using the editor to clarify some issues:

Pic 1 http://img4web.com/view/BK94C8 ) click the pic there to get a bigger version)

My simple scn has a little map with two Brit-owned areas in a larger German-held one. Each flag hex has been set to give supply.

As you noticed Commando type units do not change hex-ownership - they can move into German territory and onto the Ger flag hex, but do not revert it to the British side. That is intended for those units - in OOB they are not for doing main combat ops, but more for special operations behind enemy lines without occupying large areas

But you can still use the editor to use them for holding specific points using triggers

Pic 2 http://img4web.com/view/9XAU4G

So back in the editor I defined a victory condition - take the Ger flag hex. Clicking the H button marked allows to select the flag hex on the map to link it to this objective to get it to show up as target hex during the scenario briefing (which I did not create for this test tho)

Pic 3 http://img4web.com/view/7SSZTF

Then I switched to Triggers. The first is named "Victory". Under conditions you see it checks for hex-ownership of the red side (=I use for UK). You need to set a target hex here so the game knows where to check - so select the flag hex as target. So the condition would be met when the Brits *own* the formally German flag hex; then the "occupy Ger flag" objective would be completed for the red alliance.

Next under "Effects" it says that the trigger should just do exactly that - it sets the objective to completed once the condition is met.

Pic 4 http://img4web.com/view/7HNX5J

But we know those Commandos do not change the German flag hex to a Brit-owned one, so can normally never achieve this objective. Just moving a commando there does not mean you *own* the hex in game terms - you need to change the color/flag to your nation/alliance.

This is why we need another trigger to change the flag hex to be British-owned when a commando units does arrive there. If you would use standard infantry or tanks this would not be needed, as they do change the flags/colors (and so the ownership).

So the condition for the "Check for Commando on flag hex" trigger looks for *defined units* near a *defined hex*

Here you can select a target hex (the flag hex), set a distance ('0' means the condition is met when the unit defined is directly on the target), and you can specify the unit owner (Brits or red alliance) and unit type (commandos)

So in short this trigger looks for a Brit Commando unit directly on the flag hex - then it will fire and do what is defined to the right under "effects" - namely it changes the target hex to be Brit owned. This would then mean the conditions for the objective "occupy Ger flag" are met - even with commandos who actually cannot capture it the normal way.



I did not test this extensively for possible errors I made, but in general it should work. Hope this helps

[keithp]

Ok cheers. Yes it helps, but I will really need to get my head round it.

Thanks again.

Keith

[keithp]

Ok tried following this, but it still wont work for the commando unit. Even if I specify the unit buy clicking on it, it still wont change the flag. You are right - any other units does.

So to get round this - I would have to use a combination of units, a small team of commando units to represent the first wave, they land buy glider, advance and take out any initial opposition. The second wave is infantry troops who move an occupy the various sites, holding as required whilst the commando/ Para troops continue to mop up other forces. It is not ideal but should work.

By the way - why do some units have a tick and others a cross? I thought it was to do with the start year, but it isn't'.

Keith

[bru888]

By the way - why do some units have a tick and others a cross? I thought it was to do with the start year, but it isn't'.

You mean a check and an "X"? That's exactly why I thought they were there, to indicate when they would normally be available according to the date of your scenario. I believe you can still place "anachronistic" units in the scenario but you will not be able to acquire any more of them during the scenario.

[keithp]

That can't be right though, as the units say '41', and my date is 1944!

[Erik2]

A number of units have expire dates as well, usually whenever an updated unit is available.
I think this works fine with regular infantry, engineers etc.
Some of the entry/expire dates are wrong, ie the Bofors 40mm AA.
But earlier/outdated hardware should be available as much of it was used later in the war even when it was updated.

[keithp]

Ok thanks.

By the way - when you are creating a scenario, what methods do you use to work out unit numbers? I am assuming the units within the game correlate to a certain number in the 'real' world. For my test scenario, which was based on 'Pegasus Bridge', I used three units for each glider site, nine units in total, then around 4 - 5 German units at each VP location - with reinforcements. Very much suck it and see, so it would be nice to know how the 'experts' do it.

Keith

[Erik2]

I use official unit names whenever I can. In addition to adding a bit of flavour it makes it easier to check that you have all units present, no duplicates etc.
In a fictional scenario I would name battalion units I/1.Reg, II/1.reg and so on.

There's no wasy way to keep track of the number of various unit types. But if you've renamed them using the system above you may access a list of these 'of 'Spawned Unit Names' in the text_english.txt file created when you save a scenario. I think you can even rename unit names using this file.
Looks something like this:

// SPAWNED UNIT NAMES
spawn_name_160 = Brettingen Fort
spawn_name_161 = Hysnes Fort
spawn_name_162 = Agdenes Fort
spawn_name_163 = Hambåra Fort
spawn_name_183 = Hegra Fort
spawn_name_215 = Lade airstrip
spawn_name_118 = I/138.Gebirg
spawn_name_11 = I/138.Gebirg
spawn_name_12 = II/138.Gebirg
spawn_name_13 = III/138.Gebirg
spawn_name_14 = 1/112.Art
spawn_name_15 = 82.Pionier

[keithp]

Ok sounds good thanks.

How about equating the units to real numbers? Or do you just use a single unit - say an infantry unit - as a single unit no matter how many people were in it.

[Horst]

I think using one infantry unit as a battalion is a good compromise for many scenarios. More accurate would be company size as attached recon/cavalry, sapper, and artillery is often rather this size in a infantry division, but the number of units will vastly increase then what not everyone enjoys playing in the end.
If you know the exact size of units you could obviously change the unit strength appropriately but this hardly works with RP income after you start a scenario. The AI will quickly fill up the missing strength. OOB unfortunately misses a max-unit strength setting unlike PC for scenarios.

I haven’t studied all nations’ table of organizations yet, but my early-war German infantry divisions look like this:
3 regiments consisting of:
2x infantry
1x heavy infantry (horse)
1x 3.7 cm Pak 36 (truck)
1x engineer (horse)
1x 7.5 cm leIG 18 (horse)
1x 10.5 cm leFH 18 (truck)

Additional a single 15 cm sFH 18 w/ SdKfz 7 and a SdKfz 221 as recon unit.
I badly miss German cavalry units. I'm not up yet to use Japanese cavalry as replacement as the other minor axis nations even miss the unit-picture for their cavalry units.
Normally, there should also be a 15 cm sIG 33 in such regiments, but a German regiment in the game would become quite artillery-heavy then compared to the rather small number of real gun pieces.

The Poles look similar, although they obviously miss a 150mm artillery unit in OOB and are almost exclusively transported by horse. Unlike the German division, they got an additional 40mm Bofors AA unit with truck.
Maybe someone else got a better idea for such conversion, but I think the amount of units is still manageable in my example.

[Erik2]

Ok sounds good thanks.

How about equating the units to real numbers? Or do you just use a single unit - say an infantry unit - as a single unit no matter how many people were in it.

In a battalion scenario I would (of course) use strength = 10 for battalions, then usually 5 strength for companies.
As Horst mentions, unfortunately you can't set a max strength in the editor. i asked for this during the original beta.
If teh devs implement garrisons, maybe they would be capped at 5 strength and we could get this editor function as well.

[keithp]

Thanks for all the replies.
Will be very useful.

Keith