Soft Cap

[turn4441]

Joe:

Here is the link to Night Phoenix' latest video. However, while he may have good strategies, he is only at the end of 1940 which means dealing with entrenched opponents while building up experience and heroes, instead of hordes of experienced tanks/AT/fighters/bombers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd05FAgtsow. Compared to 1943, 1940 is like playing the tutorial.

As I mentioned above, there aren't many 'Let's Plays' after 1942 but I would recommend Deducter's as it is much more pertinent. He is using his equipment mod (and an older game version, 1.2 perhaps?) but it should help. The address for Part I of Prokhorovka is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF_xUA7i-wg You should be able to find his other 1943 videos from there.

I finally completed my last 6 turns of Prokhorovka. I wish I'd looked at the prestige file before hand as I'd have probably just decided to play for a loss earlier as you get the same prestige as for a DV (4000), another 200/turn, and you can save your core as you still move on to the next scenario. As it was, I tried to take all my objectives before giving up and pulling back to protect my mauled core. Unfortunately, I didn't think to give one of my victory hexes back, so I got a MV (3400) and only destroyed 143 of their 190 units. I would video of a DV on Mannstein for that Scenario.

As for reinforcements, I try hard not to use in-scenario reinforcements as they are ridiculously expensive for tanks, AT, planes, etc. I only use them as a last resort and use regular if it won't lower a unit an experience point. Elites are very rare and typically only for infantry that I absolutely need to hold a position or something similar. In '43, it is best to remove units from the line, but given the large number of Russian units, it is not always possible. While it may seem prudent it reinforce, they will often then be surrounded and as replacements start the AI turn suppressed, they will usually attack that unit and either wipe it out or cause it too surrender. Therefore, you not only lose the unit, but also any prestige you just spent on replacements. Artillery backup isn't much of a deterrent against an attack by a tactical bomber and 3-4 tanks/ATs.

Training as many units as possible simply means that when one of your units reaches the experience cap for that DLC (for example it is 225 in 1939), it will no longer gain experience but will stay at 225 (2 1/4 stars). Any further experience it earns in the current, or subsequent, scenarios is lost. Therefore, it is wise to purchase another unit that you can build up to the 225 cap. As a simple (but not meant to be insulting) analogy, if you keep filling a glass with water, eventually it will overflow and the extra water will be wasted and you will only have 1 glass of water. However, if you have more glasses handy, you can keep replacing ones that get full, fill the replacements with water that otherwise would have been wasted and you end up with more full, or partially full, glasses of water with little waste.

[joe6778]

Haha Goose_2 is too modest about his own role in this. I must admit that his teachings together with those of von_choker, have taught me the ropes about this game. Especially when it comes to managing your army, replenishments, how to deal with SE units, surrenders, how to build up your force, heroes etc. etc. Pretty much everything.
The links to my playthrough are here, i'm currently starting the GC 41'. I can only recommend you to the playthroughs of Goose_2 on the forum here for manstein and guderian runthroughs, if we are lucky enough, we might even get to see more replays, we'll see.
Unfortunately i have no advice to give you on the 43' and later scenarios as i've never played those, but it seems to me that having the right composition of army with some decent heroes and saving prestige should give you the results you want? =P basically what other people were saying indeed. Testing a certain map to get a feel for where the enemy comes from and what their composition of forces is would help tremendously as well, then do a run for real afterwards.

39': https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... QZnmSozBp4
40': https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... lxMpGtu0pm

I will give these a try.

Up until Storming Stalingrad in late 42, I score almost all DVs from 39 to that point.

After 42, the DLC East campaigns are a whole other animal- you're on the defensive and you have to hold off literally hundreds of top notch attacking Soviet units. It's really quite depressing to see the core you raised up from 39 get decimated. It's kind of like the Bagration scenario in the vanilla game. I usually give up in frustration around the 43 Prokhorovka scenario.

[turn4441]

P.S. I meant to say, "I would love to see a video playthrough of a Prokhorovka DV on Mannstein." Especially, a blind one.

I also hope I did not disparage Night Hawk's video in any way. I haven't watched them, but may someday if time ever allows as I always like to improve my abilities. As he says, the early DLCs are all about building an experienced and heroed core and banking prestige. The later DLCs are about preserving it when you're outnumbered almost 4:1 instead of 2:1 and by good equipment with experience. We're just lucky that the AI doesn't get as many heroes as we do.

'Testing' a map to learn when, where and with what the enemy would appear would be an incredible help but I don't see how that is enjoyable and seems to defeat the purpose to me, unless you're only playing to see how high a 'score' (prestige total, lack of losses) you can get with various strategies. Isn't this like playing on a much easier difficulty level? Do you play without fog-of-war? Isn't it the same thing? So, is the purpose of playing higher difficulty levels only to offset the fact that the AI no longer has any chance at surprise and, therefore, the only way the game can have any challenge is to reduce your prestige and experience gain relative to the AI? I'm still playing blind and am only about half way through everything (playing all combined DLCs, etc. in order, by date). Unfortunately, even now that I am retired and with kids gone, I have very little time to play. However, I would like to replay it all, but feel it wouldn't be much fun if I knew everything in advance.

Although I thoroughly enjoy this game, I think at that point, I'd move on to something else and revisit PC when I had forgotten. Fortunately, with 141, mostly 'large unit number' scenarios left to go, by the time I get to the end, I'll probably have forgotten most of it, at least the specifics, anyway.

[NightPhoenix]

Hmm, to be honest if you were to go into the missions fully blind without any hint, peek, or watched video about the map, then probably you would get wrecked eventually in the grand campaign even on the lower difficulties ( I would probably ). It all depends on how you feel about approaching these games. As for me, i usually play a mission loosely, or only halfway and then maybe around two weeks later i make a recorded run of the game. Believe me the game can still blow you out. It means that i have a rough idea about what might be coming. In reality the Germans were able to use reconnaissance planes and other methods to figure out where bulks of Soviet troops were and act accordingly. We don't really have that luxury here. (using fighters is not an option, they will get massacred every battle) That's why i don't think its that strange to have a rough estimate of what is going on. This allows you to still have that puzzle to solve on how to tackle the enemy troops and get your objectives without taking too much casualties and on time. With the randomness of the damage rolls, bad luck can destroy your strategy in a second, then it's improvise and come up with a new plan.
If i were to play it on a lower level blind i might be able to get through the missions as well, but preserving your troops isn't that important then as you can replenish with the large amounts of prestige you get, I'd start playing recklessly not really caring about the battles and that's not nice both for me and people watching. In a way right now, yes it is a challenge to take minimal losses, while dealing the most damage to the enemy, capturing most cities as possible with a certain strategy. But it's not to gain the most prestige possible, it's a struggle for survival. I'm in 41' Russia now, at the start, banking a not very impressive 5k in prestige. I welcome any scraps of prestige that can come my way. For me this is great, i get the challenge that i want and enjoy the game to the fullest. If you want something different, well the game does leave you many options. You could just skip 1943 and start fresh in 1944, new core and on a low difficulty level, and play everything blind, see how it works out.

[turn4441]

Again, I don't mean to denigrate anyone's play style or enjoyment of the game. I'm sorry if it came across that way. To each his own, and the flexibility of the game in this regard, is amazing. Mainly, I am more curious than anything else and trying to determine where I stand and if my difficulties in mid-1943 are normal for blind attempts or if 'elite' players breezed through those scenarios, even while playing blind and on the special difficulty levels. I think I'm a decent, but not great player, I just had/have to learn to be patient (I used to never even think about prestige/turn and tried to finish all scenarios as early as possible), I needed to learn that MVs are ok, and I tend to get complacent near the end and start thinking I've wiped out the enemy, which is not something you should do at any time in mid-1943. Through the forums, and people's videos, I've learned a ton and it has really made my play more enjoyable.

I understand the recon issue. I think it would be nice if you were given a more detailed intelligence report, such as 'The Russian 3rd Army was seen at 'so-and-so' yesterday and is expected to arrive in the 'such-and-such' area at around 'such-and-such' a time. Intelligence estimates they have ?? tanks, ?? troop, etc.' Occasionally very correct, most fairly correct, and also occasionally not very correct (either numbers are incorrect or they went somewhere else). It would also be nice if they supplied warnings or updates (there are a few) in game or you were allowed an occasional 'recon flight(s)' which would reveal a small area(s) of the map under the shroud for a while.

Anyway, it was sure nice to play Agrigento (USC '43) after the pain of Provhorovka. Forty enemy units isn't too daunting after dealing with 190, although my Russian front experiences made me constantly gun-shy and I kept expecting that I was being lured in, only to be accosted by a horde of units and constant air bombardment (since I wasn't allowed any planes). Fortunately, it was not the case.

[joe6778]

Oh, boy.

I'm trying to put all these strategy tips to good use, but I just won a MV on a scenario that I usually win a DV (Reims.) I also lost an SE unit and a core unit INF I was trying to train.

[Bonners]

As a returned to the game I've been playing along quite happily, but what actually is soft cap? I feel like a total pleb for asking, but I cant find a straightforward explanation on the forum?

[captainjack]

The soft cap looks at the average cost of your core units (but not SE units) at any point in the game. If this is over 400, it reduces the amount of prestige awarded, although above some limit, you always get at least 20% of the standard amount. Say you have expensive units or a lot of overstrength so that you are at 50% prestige. Capturing a town would normally give you 50 prestige, but you get 25 because you deployed a high value force. The Soft cap tool tip introduced in 1.30 allows you to see how much % of prestige you are getting.

The idea behind it appears to be to encourage the use of a more mixed force by penalising the overstrength steamroller of endless 15strength Tiger 2 units. some of the more advanced players seem to like it but the main arguments against are:
- difficult mechanism to track during deployment, though now the tooltip works in game;
- not related to selected difficulty level;
- always on (not player selectable);
- game features introduced in 1.2 can create similar outcomes in combination with a tweak of the prestige slider settings.

If you don't like it or prefer to limit your forces through other paths (self imposed limits or prestige slider settings) it isn't selectable in game but only in the Gamesrules file. The easiest way to deactivate it is through a mod and GME.

[Bonners]

The soft cap looks at the average cost of your core units (but not SE units) at any point in the game. If this is over 400, it reduces the amount of prestige awarded, although above some limit, you always get at least 20% of the standard amount. Say you have expensive units or a lot of overstrength so that you are at 50% prestige. Capturing a town would normally give you 50 prestige, but you get 25 because you deployed a high value force. The Soft cap tool tip introduced in 1.30 allows you to see how much % of prestige you are getting.

The idea behind it appears to be to encourage the use of a more mixed force by penalising the overstrength steamroller of endless 15strength Tiger 2 units. some of the more advanced players seem to like it but the main arguments against are:
- difficult mechanism to track during deployment, though now the tooltip works in game;
- not related to selected difficulty level;
- always on (not player selectable);
- game features introduced in 1.2 can create similar outcomes in combination with a tweak of the prestige slider settings.

If you don't like it or prefer to limit your forces through other paths (self imposed limits or prestige slider settings) it isn't selectable in game but only in the Gamesrules file. The easiest way to deactivate it is through a mod and GME.

Brilliant, thanks very much, that would explain the lack of prestige, even in easier settings, I take it this affects the amount of prestige at the end of each scenario as well? Now off to try and find how to use the tool tip, I take it I need to be reading the 1.30 update notes for further info?

[captainjack]

The tooltip is just an extra bit of info you get when you point the mouse at the prestige panel in the top right of the screen, so you don't need to check the manual for that one. When version 1.3 is enabled, as well as the prestige per turn display, it should show a percentage figure, which is how much current prestige compares with the standard figure - if it doesn't show a percentage, you know that your Softcapoff mod is working.

Before version 1.3, we had no warning of when soft cap was working and how much effect it had, so the tooltip has been a good thing. Before this, the only way you could tell if soft cap was on was: where's my prestige gone? then next time you captured a city, you see if you get 50 prestige or something less. I have had soft cap working on my army in early 1941, but you could probably trigger it some time in 1940 if you have a lot of units at maximum strength.

[Bonners]

The tooltip is just an extra bit of info you get when you point the mouse at the prestige panel in the top right of the screen, so you don't need to check the manual for that one. When version 1.3 is enabled, as well as the prestige per turn display, it should show a percentage figure, which is how much current prestige compares with the standard figure - if it doesn't show a percentage, you know that your Softcapoff mod is working.

Before version 1.3, we had no warning of when soft cap was working and how much effect it had, so the tooltip has been a good thing. Before this, the only way you could tell if soft cap was on was: where's my prestige gone? then next time you captured a city, you see if you get 50 prestige or something less. I have had soft cap working on my army in early 1941, but you could probably trigger it some time in 1940 if you have a lot of units at maximum strength.

Ahh right, prestige per turn on my easy campaign is set at zero That would explain a few things!

[loganfive]

I have noticed that a lot of people are turning off the soft cap.

I have not tried playing without the soft cap but I would imagine that it would make the game much easier to play in any just about any campaign from 1942 onward.

I have played the DLC Grand Campaign (East only, so far) on both Colonel and Field Marshall difficulty and did not find Field Marshall that much harder.

Am I alone in thinking that the Grand Campaign on Field Marshall without the cap is easier than on Colonel with the cap?

[captainjack]

More often than not it will be more difficult with soft cap on because you have less prestige in late game when you need it most for repair and for elite reinforcement to maintain experience. I haven't tried a comparison of colonel + soft cap with field marshall +no soft cap. I would suspect that as soft cap has the same settings at all difficulty levels, then the impact would be much more noticeable if playing at Colonel where you would expect plenty of prestige than at FM where you would expect limited prestige. It is a very blunt instrument. If I'm not mistaken, most Panzer Corps campaigns were designed before soft cap was introduced, so they would not have been play tested with soft cap.

The single biggest difference for me is that playing with soft cap off makes it much easier to understand what's going on. Too much prestige? adjust the slider to find a level that presents a challenge. can't find a suitable prestige setting for a campaign? Set personal limits on amount of overstrength, upgrades per scenario, or adopt a divisional structure that encourages a more balanced force.The other great strength of disabling soft cap is that you get to use a wider range of SE units - the soft cap encourages use of only heavy tanks as SE units, so people miss out on the extra ammo and SA that makes SE Grenadiers so good in close terrain, for example.

[loganfive]

The other great strength of disabling soft cap is that you get to use a wider range of SE units - the soft cap encourages use of only heavy tanks as SE units, so people miss out on the extra ammo and SA that makes SE Grenadiers so good in close terrain, for example.

You can still do that. I kept one of my SE Grenadiers because they were at 5 stars and had +2 Attack and +1 Movement heroes.

[JagdpanzerIV]

the soft cap is super silly because in 1944/45 the Russian horde charge at you with endless over strength units with 400+ experience. Duh. So, if you keep a bunch of PzIV, they'll get wiped out easily. i finished the grand campaign (east) on general setting, and it was a Pita, although i managed to keep all my original forces alive. It took way too long, i have other things to do seriously...

[huckc]

An unintended(?) side-effect of soft cap, especially on Rommel and Ultimate, is that capturable units are much more valuable since their sell price is not affected at all by soft cap or prestige modifiers.

[edahl1980]

joe6778; in terms of maximising your prestige/revenue i recently tried using a particular strategy and i found that in most of dlc 43 east (on field marshall difficulty) and i was still getting quite high income from captures. Its quite simple, EARLY ON I disband any infantry se units so i only have/get se tanks. since these do not count towards the soft cap I have them overstrengthed to the max but my ordinary tanks are not overstrengthed. My air force which also does not count towards the soft cap is overstrengthed. even at late 1943 values the infantry (dont use expensive transports) is nowhere near the soft cap threshold of 400 but the tanks always are over. consequently i can start gc43 east with 6 SE tigers ( 5 overstrengthed one inexperienced), 3 ordinary heroed tigers, a mean airforce, a full complement of units - one i can get a dv with and still get 90% of soft cap income.
I have been playing for years but this new strategy was a revelation for me, my game went up a notch. If you look through the threads about soft cap you will find tips about getting more income to the point where the soft cap wont irritate you anymore.

Air units do not count towards the soft cap?

[hugh2711]

sorry my mistake; air units DO count towards the softcap

[captainjack]

SE units don't count towards soft cap. This pushes soft cap users to field only the most expensive SE units at full overstrength (tanks if playing Germany or Russia, planes if playing US or allied corps). Hence my comment on SE grenadiers being overlooked despite being a very effective unit.

The effect on captured units that huckc mentions is interesting. As I understand it, soft cap is calculated using current actual unit strength and therefore varies throughout the game as you take casualties. Being awarded a captured unit could change your soft cap status, so you may lose out a bit during the game even though you do well if you can sell it between scenarios.

[dalfrede]

To expand on captainjack's point, in [GC42/43W] the unit count is low.

From a question I asked Nico over in Scenario Design:

.. .
Dieppe

Nico has added a 2000 prestige gift on turn 4.
Turn one gifts 3 new core units, soft cap=88%
Turn three gifts 3 more core units, soft cap=44%
Gift 2000 -> 900 prestige
. . .