Blitzkrieg 41-42

[Andy2012]

Airstrip spawning has been removed.

Thanks, Erik.
I am BTW 100 % positive that I had eight army command points left, but not enough supply in my starting region before Turn 1 in Minsk to deploy everything I wanted. Same in Smolensk. So I did not lose any cities, I could only deploy all command points after I took Brest. Odd. Will maybe post screenshot later.

[Andy2012]

Airstrip spawning has been removed.

What do you mean? Can't you capture any airstripes anymore then?
I haven't played 41-42 yet if something is different there compared to the v3.1 of 39-40. I once changed your airstrip code that the condition checks on any event if the original hex is unoccupied to make it only spawn there. That worked fine, so no need to totally remove that good feature.

You can capture airstrips. In the previous version, the airstrips in Minsk just turned into a makeshift airstrip after capturing (those tent models which only allow you to launch one aircraft per turn instead of two).

[Erik2]

Re command points vs supply. I have a theory

You core infantry is supposed to be in transports, generally infantry in trucks and engineers/heavy infantry in halftracks.
I suspect (some) players prefer to use the 1-LCP saved pr unit by not adding transport to buy an extra unit or two instead.
There may be a game issue where one infantry/infantry in trucks both use 3 supply points. So if you skip trucks for three units and buy another inf unit, there may not be supply left for the extra unit.

That would explain the supply issues you've seen.

[Andy2012]

Re command points vs supply. I have a theory

You core infantry is supposed to be in transports, generally infantry in trucks and engineers/heavy infantry in halftracks.
I suspect (some) players prefer to use the 1-LCP saved pr unit by not adding transport to buy an extra unit or two instead.
There may be a game issue where one infantry/infantry in trucks both use 3 supply points. So if you skip trucks for three units and buy another inf unit, there may not be supply left for the extra unit.

That would explain the supply issues you've seen.

Yes, sounds logical. I always go for light infantry without transport, engineers get trucks. With bru's writings on light arty, I have picked up these, too. Mostly, I form strike teams of light infantry, light AT and light arty to push along roads, all without transport. Works like a charm so far.
However, I am still not sure how my Blitzkrieg DLC army composition will fare in a Panzercorps setup. Right now, I only have two Panzer III and two Panzer IVs and two Stugs as mobile arty. Maybe that is not enough against waves of Russian armor.
Another point - maybe you can add more depth to the Panzercorps campaign and maps by tweaking some missions, especially in Russia, to have a supply dynamic. For example, have those roads behind Minsk have lots of off-map supply (30 each), but Minsk itself only 5 or 10. This way, you can cut off the city OoB style instead of just playing Panzercorps with fancy graphics. Think about it.

[Erik2]

Re supply.
I have a basic scheme I use when putting supply on the map. There are of course variations on this theme.
Each town get 3 supply, enough to feed an infantry unit (garrison). Map edge roads get 5 supply, map edge rail get 10 supply.
If there is still supply missing for the at-start units, I allocate extra supply to objectives until I get a small surplus (+5-10 supply).

So grabbing objectives and map edge roads/rails should see the enemy beginning to suffer from low supply.
Surrounding multiple enemy units around a single town should also work, although probably not around an objective. Some resistance is needed

[Andy2012]

Re supply.
I have a basic scheme I use when putting supply on the map. There are of course variations on this theme.
Each town get 3 supply, enough to feed an infantry unit (garrison). Map edge roads get 5 supply, map edge rail get 10 supply.
If there is still supply missing for the at-start units, I allocate extra supply to objectives until I get a small surplus (+5-10 supply).

So grabbing objectives and map edge roads/rails should see the enemy beginning to suffer from low supply.
Surrounding multiple enemy units around a single town should also work, although probably not around an objective. Some resistance is needed

Lets see how this plays out. Supply was a major issue that made Crete unwinnable at first, so this reminds me of my suffering.
I mean, with the tight turn limits and the slower OoB movement / few roads on the maps in this Panzercorps conversion, grabbing road and rail links on map edges seems difficult. Also, to stand a chance against soviet armor, you need to mass your units in one wedge. This way, they support each other. This kind of runs against sending a lot of fast forces along the map edges to grab supply areas.

Also, I think some central supply hubs and off-map supply links (major ones, 30-40 supply) would be more realistic and add an additional gameplay layer to this campaign. Will report back on this when I have more time to play. (Can take a few days) Minsk as far as I could see it offered no supply dynamic.

[Horst]

These supply rules aren't bad at all, especially if they are kept low that strategic bombers don't need 30 turns to decimate a single town hex.
I've already experienced enough supply issues in France where the total amount was too tight, like in Sedan. I don't mind if supply is short if it's historical justified, like in winter 41, in Stalingrad, 1945 for Germany on the loosing path, or in the early Blitzkrieg campaigns when panzers spearheaded too far ahead from the supply units.
By the way, the supply air drop by plane in Den Haag was nicely done!
The own exit-point should have a largest supply at beginning with enough surplus that you don't get immediately red numbers on one of the first enemy strat-bomber attacks.

[Andy2012]

@everybody: Come on guys, pitch in for Erik. I can only play at most 2-3 hours every week right now. Kriegsmarine is still behind the horizon...

[Horst]

As I often notice and suggest some weird technical issues, I rather post my finding in the scenario forum.

[Andy2012]

As I often notice and suggest some weird technical issues, I rather post my finding in the scenario forum.

Fair point.

@Erik: Should I post here or there? Or doesnt it matter? Please post updated links (or briefly paste your revisions) here, too.
Did you already do an update for Smolensk (2nd russia mission)?
(Sorry, I always pop in here between things and quickly lose track this way...)

[Erik2]

Andy

Doesn't really matter for where stuff is posted as long as a suitable discussion thread is used.
I read every post here anyway.

All the campaign links use version numbers. I just updated 1939-40 and 41-42.
Se Lion is undergoing a complete revision using the Kriegmarine beta. So Sea Lion will be updated after KM is officially launched.

[Andy2012]

Andy

Doesn't really matter for where stuff is posted as long as a suitable discussion thread is used.
I read every post here anyway.

All the campaign links use version numbers. I just updated 1939-40 and 41-42.
Se Lion is undergoing a complete revision using the Kriegmarine beta. So Sea Lion will be updated after KM is officially launched.

Okay, will download that. Might even play it a bit tomorrow, no guarantees.

[Andy2012]

Andy

Doesn't really matter for where stuff is posted as long as a suitable discussion thread is used.
I read every post here anyway.

All the campaign links use version numbers. I just updated 1939-40 and 41-42.
Se Lion is undergoing a complete revision using the Kriegmarine beta. So Sea Lion will be updated after KM is officially launched.

Campaign link in this thread isnt working anymore. Where is the newest version? Thanks in advance, Erik.

[prattaa]

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 74&t=65107

[Erik2]

Andy

I've started adding version numbers to the zip.
You need to go to the source for the latest link:
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 74&t=65107

I'll remove the dead link in the first post.

[Horst]

Okay, here’s something to discuss: do you guys think the old commanders from 39-40 should be obtainable in 41-42 again?
I vote for definitely yes, as they are a compensation for the heroes in PC. They give more personality to some of your core units and an extra strategic value where to use them best.
I’d like to slowly collect them during the first scenarios again, starting with Guderian. This would definitely spice-up some of the secondary objectives which became rather dull and unnecessary to accomplish.
When I started 41, I immediately felt something was missing. All my tanks and planes were the same with only some difference in experience. I renamed my units with the commander’s name in 39-40, so Heinz Guderian & Co. could lead the way.

[Erik2]

Horst

Good idea. I'll add one land and one commander in each of the starting scenarios until I run out.
I don't know what happens if commanders are both imported and added later, but that is the devs' problem

Edit: 41-42 campaign updated to v1.3

[Horst]

I'm not a big fan of this import mechanic, without commanders anway.
The bummer with this import process is that all units are basically destroyed in the next campaign. Reviving them gives them only slightly more exp than freshly purchased once with Boot Camp, Tank/Flight School if they had about 4-stars or more before.

By the way, your 41-42 data.cmp file can't import core units.
Move the entries from the [ALLIANCE] tag down to [CORES] and change Blitzkrieg39-41 to Blitzkrieg39-40

[Andy2012]

@Erik:

Alright, tried Smolensk a few turns (7) and my first impressions:

1. Cut down enemy reinforcements (=credits to 0). The russians are way ahead of me and I have no chance. (I can play this game, I am not stupid. But this is not balanced.)
2. Give me more air supply. I cant even deploy everything I have and I have more than 3500 (I kid you not) credits in the bank.
3. Neatly ties into 2 - the Russian airforce is waaaayyy too strong.
4. Increase supply in the base area. Massively. Right now, one (2 strength) Russian tank can move on a rail supply link and cut my whole army off. Absurd. Be a bit more lenient here.
5. Generally, this isnt Panzercorps. You cannot port 1:1. This is never-ever going to be fun or playable if you keep this up.

After playing some of the missions you did for this campaign (great work, still. Could not do it myself ), I think the general feedback I can give you is:
1. No resupply to the Russians until at least Moscow.
2. Combat is less harsh in OoB. So cut down Russian units (and everywhere else) and set resupply to 0 or after Moscow maybe to 2 per turn. Seriously, this does not work out in any other way.
3. More supply for me. Maybe even more command points. If you feel like this should be a massive army I am commanding, go for it. (This strains hardware. I would still suggest keeping things smaller.)
4. More roads, more turns. Even if Russia had no paved roads in 1941, who cares? This is about fun, not accuracy.

In general, you cannot move this 1:1 from Panzercorps to OoB and expect a playable result.
OoB gives you a lot more possibilities in terms of supply, credits options and so on. Use them. And with the OoB AI, the Russians are way too strong. They should be reeling until Moscow, at least.
So, most important: Make me stronger, make them weaker. This is not about incompetence, but after a few turns I can already tell this is not going anywhere.
BTW, why not add commanders in this campaign? Can you actually edit them? (Sorry, dont know anything) If yes, they could be the great equalizer.

Keep up the great work, Erik.

[prattaa]

In general, you cannot move this 1:1 from Panzercorps to OoB and expect a playable result.

In my experience so far with both campaigns I would disagree. I hope Erik would not make drastic changes until he gets more feedback from other players. The scenarios just need to be play tested for objectives, deployment points, and turn lengths. Playing through the 39-40 campaign again and I'm finding in much easier this time as I think Erik greatly reduced the supply rate for the AI as they rarely reinforce damaged units.

Regarding the AI's air force, I admit I avoid air combat in this game. That is not the scenario's fault but a flaw with OOB in fighter vs fighter as well as fighter escort mechanics. A 2 star Bf109F attacking a 0 star I-16 will take 2+ losses for inflicting 3 damage. That is just not a ratio you can win by as your fighters will be completely worn down after a few turns. I bring 3 or 4 AAA units to start the battle and wear down the enemy air force making sure my ground units advance under their protection and units vulnerable to air attack (i.e. artillery, AT guns) stay hidden in cities or forest. Then use my fighters to pick off the weakened units. Once I have air superiority I retire the AAA and fighters and start with the tac bombers and more ground forces. Some air commanders with a strong defense rating might make air to air combat more reasonable in the campaign.