Recon airplanes in PzC

[Yrfin]

What you're think about Recon Airplanes in game ?
Is it necessary to have this kind of airplanes or not ?
It can be makes FoG/No FoG issue more flexible.

I can imagine 2 kind of recon aircrafts: Tactical (short range, recon move, spot 3) and Strategical (long range, no recon move, spot 4)

Any suggestion ?

[proline]

Any kind of recon in PzC is inherently weak, because the AI attacks are all scripted and predictable and because unit slots are at a premium. Despite that, the developers have obsessed with ways to make it even weaker such as the penalty for recon move, giving recon aircraft shorter movement than all other planes, making recon die in one shot to anything that comes out post 1942, and limiting recon vision to 3- which is the same as a tank with a vision hero which is far, far more capable. Recon planes aren't particularly strong because they have to be escorted by fighters and because AA in PzC is very mobile and therefore a constant threat to them. Even so, they didn't see fit to give the Germans a recon aircraft even though they certainly had them historically.

[Cerberus51]

What you're think about Recon Airplanes in game ?
Is it necessary to have this kind of airplanes or not ?
It can be makes FoG/No FoG issue more flexible.

I can imagine 2 kind of recon aircrafts: Tactical (short range, recon move, spot 3) and Strategical (long range, no recon move, spot 4)

Any suggestion ?

Well they are more useful than ground recon as they can reveal a bigger area more quickly, but they need to be escorted so that really takes up 2 slots.

Historically recon aircraft in WW2 were mostly either converted fighters (Spitfire, P-38) or high altitude specials (Ju-86P) used for longer range missions or for maritime use (outside the scope of PzC). There were also tactical recons such as the FW189 for short range battlefield recon. The recon planes in the equipment file function in the tactical role and there is a question whether a strategic recon type is appropriate to the scale of most scenarios (I doubt it).

They are not necessary in the game although my personal preference is FoG on so then any recon has use. What recon units, ground and air, really need is a chance of retreating when attacked, then there would be more incentive to use them.

[Yrfin]

... but they need to be escorted so that really takes up 2 slots.

With reconmove air-recon can avoid enemy attack himself. Maybe camo can help too, dont sure.

Historically recon aircraft in WW2 were mostly either converted fighters (Spitfire, P-38) or high altitude specials (Ju-86P) used for longer range missions or for maritime use (outside the scope of PzC).

Not at all, German Luftwaffe also have long-range recon version of Ju 88D, Bf 110C-5, E-3, Do 17Z-3.

The recon planes in the equipment file function in the tactical role and there is a question whether a strategic recon type is appropriate to the scale of most scenarios (I doubt it).

Any scenarions. For example, first scenario in GC 39 (Posnan). With long range air-recon you can seen disposition Polish air-force and make first-strike air attack. Without long-range air-recon you cant do it.

What recon units, ground and air, really need is a chance of retreating when attacked, then there would be more incentive to use them.

You mean retreat or evade, like Sub ?

[wargovichr]

The Avro Anson recon plane given the US in US Corps (spotting range 3) is invaluable in that DLC series, as my experience is that spotting the massed "kamikaze panzer attack" groups AHEAD OF TIME then aggressively attacking them by air (prestige saver!), before they get triggered, is vital for campaign success. This unit has a spot and scoot feature. This allows it (albeit with some risk) to function without an escort if used carefully.
Now the other unit that I'll betcha most players have discarded in the DLC East series is where the player receives a recon Stuka (Minsk41) --"young" Rudel" -- a unit easily converted to a more survivable Me 110. This unit has a spotting range of 4! (2 baseline, +2 spotting hero). It can be nurtured until it has several stars experience, and though it has no spot and scoot capability is well survivable on its own then. You may need to escort early in battles, before air superiority is attained. It is invaluable in spotting heavily defended cities especially those with nasty double AA units. One does have to guess (even with spotting 4 hex spotting) where the AA might be when approaching a defended zone especially later when the Russian fields the 3 hex guns. An experienced unit (upgrade to Me 110G) can "take some flak." I did take some bad battle damage in one battle, repaired the unit in game with green replacements, then used it over next battle or two constantly as strafing duty to regain its experience.
There is concern on taking up the slot. You could easily make the case that the spotting it provides (enemy AA and artillery positioning!) is invaluable. Once enemy planes knocked down, use double duty as strafer to reduce entrenchment, and not so bad against armor.
One solution for the recon slot or not slot dilemma is to "award" yourself use of the units by using the cheat command "core 1" at end of deployment, at every battle or random ones -- say a flip of the coin. Or attribute its use to a good aggressive commander requisitioning needed equipment by hook or by crook!

[Erasermarek]

The Avro Anson recon plane given the US in US Corps (spotting range 3) is invaluable in that DLC series, as my experience is that spotting the massed "kamikaze panzer attack" groups AHEAD OF TIME then aggressively attacking them by air (prestige saver!), before they get triggered, is vital for campaign success. This unit has a spot and scoot feature. This allows it (albeit with some risk) to function without an escort if used carefully.
Now the other unit that I'll betcha most players have discarded in the DLC East series is where the player receives a recon Stuka (Minsk41) --"young" Rudel" -- a unit easily converted to a more survivable Me 110. This unit has a spotting range of 4! (2 baseline, +2 spotting hero). It can be nurtured until it has several stars experience, and though it has no spot and scoot capability is well survivable on its own then. You may need to escort early in battles, before air superiority is attained. It is invaluable in spotting heavily defended cities especially those with nasty double AA units. One does have to guess (even with spotting 4 hex spotting) where the AA might be when approaching a defended zone especially later when the Russian fields the 3 hex guns. An experienced unit (upgrade to Me 110G) can "take some flak." I did take some bad battle damage in one battle, repaired the unit in game with green replacements, then used it over next battle or two constantly as strafing duty to regain its experience.
There is concern on taking up the slot. You could easily make the case that the spotting it provides (enemy AA and artillery positioning!) is invaluable. Once enemy planes knocked down, use double duty as strafer to reduce entrenchment, and not so bad against armor.
One solution for the recon slot or not slot dilemma is to "award" yourself use of the units by using the cheat command "core 1" at end of deployment, at every battle or random ones -- say a flip of the coin. Or attribute its use to a good aggressive commander requisitioning needed equipment by hook or by crook!

Young Rudel? I get him in 1939... was dissapointed... after his message at start GC 1940 - hans-ulrich rudel's request to be transfered to a dive bomber unit has been denied... i check forum and im so happy i dont discarded Rudel.... bcz in Minsk you get UBer Rudel Dont write here stats but is imho OP

[wargovichr]

Yes, you are correct, sir.
"Young Rudel" appears in Poznan '39, the recon Stuka version.
It's the "older Rudel", the mega dive bomber version that appears in Minsk '41.
Good head.