Tank Shock and Zone of Control

[Dizzy_slith]

Just wanted to open some discourse on what you guys thought about something in Sanctus Reach that bugs me. Currently, Tanks do not seem to be able to Tank Shock. To those that are unfamiliar with that term, a Tank Shock is what you call 'running over' someone in your way. That's where Zone of Control Comes in. ZoC is the adjacent area around a melee unit that locks enemy units in a close combat fight to the death. Including tanks.

I dont like it. I wondering what you all think about it, because some players have complained Tank shock is not in the game and dont like their tanks getting hung up in ZoC. Of course, I understand the need for ZoC. But is there room to compromise? Could some form of Tank shock be implemented based on how many squares away the vehicle is that relates to the damage done to the target unit? And what kind of reaction fire to a Tank Shock would be appropriate? A powerglove/Klaw armed unit would obviously have a different counter attack than an axe/chainsword and pistol reaction. And once an enemy unit exerts it's ZoC over a Tank, instead of it sitting there locked in melee to the death, how about we give the Tank the ability to move one square a turn until it's no longer in a ZoC? Wouldnt that appease the need to have it for balance and mission reasons, yet give the player some ability to remove a Tank from being stuck in a melee with a unit armed with a chainsword or axe? It's inexplicable that the Tank wouldnt be able to move... It should.

What I'd like to see is at the least a Tank in a ZoC be given one square movement ability. Preferably, half movement out of a ZoC, but into a ZoC their movement stops. That doesnt sound hard to do. What also would be nice is if an enemy unit tank shocked has to move out of the way, if they can, which makes tank shock an attack. So the above rule of moving into a ZoC is suspended whilst performing a tank shock, but Tank Shock can't be performed unless you're already out of a ZoC. If a unit cant move out of the way of geting Tank Shocked, the infantry unit gets run over and dies. Some kinda damage to the unit based on the distance traveled would be appropriate.

And what to do about skimmers? Same rule as Tanks?

I'm hoping this makes it to the devs ears before they redo Force Organization, because we really really need to have mechanized unit choices so we dont get bored with all the random foot slogging army selections all the time. And when mechanized unit selections become possible, Tank shock and ZoC with tanks should already be figured out. Thanks for reading.

[IainMcNeil]

I've noted it on the wish list. I'm not sure what the plan will be at this point but we're listening!

[Dizzy_slith]

I've noted it on the wish list. I'm not sure what the plan will be at this point but we're listening!

I'm glad you're listening because this game is golden! And if you make it better, it will blows the doors off the Eternity Gate and the Emperor will get up off his throne and do a little dance.

[ImperialGrunt]

Good to go RE Tank Shock (the vehicle overrun)!

As I am sure you are aware, many vehicles in 40k have dozer blades and other spikey bits just for this.



CHAARRGE!

[Dizzy_slith]

THAT pic, "Get me CLOSER so I can hack them with my sword!"

[ImperialGrunt]

THAT pic, "Get me CLOSER so I can hack them with my sword!"

Yes.. The Emperor Protects.

[Galdred]

But it is the kind of things that make more sense in 40K than at this scale. Epic 40k used a close combat factor that represented a lot of things (then a to hit close combat value which fulfilled a similar role): short range weapons, grenades, tank shock...
It would be hard for a tank to ram 5 people at the same time, so it could be difficult to make it ram a squad and end up behind.

[ImperialGrunt]

But it is the kind of things that make more sense in 40K than at this scale. Epic 40k used a close combat factor that represented a lot of things (then a to hit close combat value which fulfilled a similar role): short range weapons, grenades, tank shock...
It would be hard for a tank to ram 5 people at the same time, so it could be difficult to make it ram a squad and end up behind.

Not necessarily. The tank shock is basically a vehicle melee attack and the effected unit takes whatever damage and is forced to move, very similar too the melee actions now in SR. And vehicles should be able to ignore infantry zones of control for movement (but still suffer from any reaction fire).

[Dizzy_slith]

Think of it like infantry grenades. Infantry dont use an action point to expend a grenade. Its done during movement. So likewise, a vehicle could perform a similar attack during its movement, the Tank Shock. The damage would need to be representative of the distance the vehicle traveled. For balance purposes, the infantry run over should automatically get a reaction shot no matter their facing and ALSO have a reduction in any damage for any cover they are next to. I feel no remorse for infantry standing in the middle of the open when a tank is coming at them. They deserved to be squished.

[Dizzy_slith]

Hey Devs, what is the reason an ork can tie up a tank in a ZoC? Why did you guys decide that tanks get stuck to the death in a ZoC?

I do think a tank should not be stuck to the death. Im thinking they should get at least a one square move. Imagine a baneblade getting stuck by an ork. Hard to imagine isnt it? All that comes to mind is squishy.

If this is implemented, in game turns, infantry can still affect tanks. They can severely restrict their mobility by moving adjacent and then the tank will be forced to move a square away and shoot that infantry instead of being on its merry way or shooting a preferred target for fear of having their mobility affected again.

If this one square move is implemented, then the unit they are moving away from should be allowed a reaction shot which obviously would be done against the rear armor. I think this is well thought out and balanced, because having a tank be stuck to the death immobilized by an infantry unit makes no sense and gives infantry too much control. My 2 cents. Final Answer.

[SgtBootStrap]

Another method could be a "knock back" effect that Tanks and other Large/Flying units get.

When a Tank enters an enemy units ZoC, it knocks that unit back 1 square for every 2 or 3 squares (pick your poison) moved forward, with some applicable value of damage (TBD by Dev) applied to the "knocked back" unit. Damage values could vary depending on the unit being "knocked" back.

Any Tank, or flying unit ftm, should also be granted 1/2 (50%) of its next turns movement points to be applied, in reverse, to remove itself from its enemies ZoC is so desired. Currently, any unit in Melee range (aka ZoC) that itself does not have Melee capabilities, seems to incur a near "100%" accuracy penalty. (whatever the penalty # actually is)

A "reverse" move action would allow such a unit to back up, unless the rear ZoC is also blocked, removing itself from said Melee ZoC and as such, increase its accuracy to a point of being useful.

This would also allow the enemy unit, if it had any movement points left after being "knocked back" to move back into the Tanks ZoC and melee it or wait until the next turn and get an automatic "reaction attack" action to any "reversing" unit.

[GordonStraylight]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas guys.

We will take a look at this and see what we can do.

Cheers,

Gordon.

[ImperialGrunt]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas guys.

We will take a look at this and see what we can do.

Cheers,

Gordon.

This is excellent news. Tank Shock against infantry would be a fantastic addition to the game mechanics. But with that said, do not forget about RAMMING enemy vehicles!



Because... its Warhammer 40K.