Winter War at the highest diff. level

[kondi754]

Some print screens from Viipuri '44 Scn.
I was able to keep the first line of defense within 11 turns.
It seems I should stop the Soviets offensive on the outskirts of Vyborg.

[bru888]

I'd be interested to hear how you did with Karelian Isthmus, the first Mannerheim Line scenario. I played that on medium difficulty and failed. The second go-through, I cheated a bit.

[kondi754]

I'd be interested to hear how you did with Karelian Isthmus, the first Mannerheim Line scenario. I played that on medium difficulty and failed. The second go-through, I cheated a bit.

I would advise most "static" units (such as: artillery, at/aa guns, hv infantry, normal infantry) to concentrate on both ends of the Mannerheim line. I would place the "fast" units (tanks and ski troops) in the center, well hidden in the woods.
Points of resistance (silver flags) try to defend at all costs, while you may let/pass Russian attacks (especially Russian tanks) through the central segment of ML, this forces may enter on your back and then you should cut them off by your hidden units. It makes no sense to fight with better Russian units in the open space and block their way at any cost.
I think it looks good on printscreens below.
This is the situation after the battle, so you can see I wasn't able to achieve all objectives but it was a very difficult campaign.

[kondi754]

I've done it, Viipuri was defended.
I was able to keep the second line of defense, so all tasks completed.
Defense was desperate and heroic, look at the print screens.

[GiveWarAchance]

kondi you may be a world class master of warfare, but I still think Chuikov could grind you beneath tank treads and piles of arty shells if he took over control of the Russians in that campaign.

[kondi754]

kondi you may be a world class master of warfare, but I still think Chuikov could grind you beneath tank treads and piles of arty shells if he took over control of the Russians in that campaign.

Russian generals weren't masters of strategy, even at the end of the war.
Their victories have always been made at the cost of massive loss of life. I take care about the smallest loss, so I think I'm a better commander than they do.

[GiveWarAchance]

That is true for all of them except Chuikov who actually did have some skills. He stayed up front and was good for morale. You should read this book about him.

[bru888]

I have played Viipuri. I am a changed man. I never want to go through that experience again (for now). I have sworn off and forsaken warfare (until tomorrow).

Wow, what a battle. This may have been the toughest challenge yet. (I have played U.S. Pacific, Marines, Morning Sun, Rising Sun, and now Winter War.) I think it's the biggest battle I have seen in any scenario.

Disclaimer: I played on middle difficulty and I technically won in regulation time (25 turns). The Soviets never broke the VT-line.

But that was not enough. I wanted to wipe the map of all Soviets and that is what I did. It took 70 turns, but here I am in Leningrad (overtime was my only cheat). I am about to rename it Bruciegrad:

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I even conquered Kronstadt, which is rather difficult to do since there is no Finnish navy and that darned Soviet light cruiser pounded away with impunity the entire scenario:

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How did I finally eliminate the cruiser? I tried fighters and bombers (Dorniers, which I thought would do the job) but the thing was impervious. What else could I throw at it? Would you believe the answer was these Fokker biplanes? They were the only aircraft that could deal even a small amount of damage to a cruiser. Here is its dying moment, well deserved:

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I am exhausted. No more war (until tomorrow ).

[GiveWarAchance]

If water can carve a deep ravine in granite rock, then machine guns can eventually carve up a cruiser.

[bru888]

If water can carve a deep ravine in granite rock, then machine guns can eventually carve up a cruiser.

Heh. I was willing to play 70 turns, not 700! Apparently those Fokker biplanes have some dive bomb capability.

Admittedly, I went a little nuts in this scenario. Something about being pounded by those big guns, losing air superiority, and enduring all the bombardments drove me around the bend. That's when I decided upon the Ultimate Solution. Total Annihilation.

But what a scenario. This one requires one to take advantage of every defensive tactic available. River defense. Unit rotation. Luring enemies closer to bunkers. Hiding in the woods whenever practical. Knowing when to launch quick counter-strikes, then quickly retreat. Great stuff.

When it became evident that I had weathered the storm, that the waves of Soviet ground troops had finally been broken, decimated, and eliminated, then my eyes lifted to those darned Soviet fighters and bombers. I scanned the horizon for those monster artillery guns that had been pounding us forever. And that cruiser. That cruiser.

I murdered elements of the Soviet air force in their beds (hangers) and laughed as I did so.

I hunted down the big guns like they were lumbering beasts, waiting to be slaughtered.

I sucked the life out of that cruiser, using my Fokker biplanes like vampire bats.

Then I stood in Leningrad (now called Bruciegrad) and raised my flag. I even sent a detachment over to Kronstadt to lower that hated Soviet banner. EVERY Soviet unit on the map had been wiped out!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Don't worry. I'm fully recovered and back to normal now. Mostly. ]

[adherbal]

Viipuri was indeed the scenario that made us realise that artillery needed to be tweaked. Until that point we always got away with barely giving the AI any artillery (in all campaigns) but that just didn't feel right for late-war Soviet offensives. Before the artillery tweals, there was just no way to keep units alive. The Soviet ground units would pound a unit to breaking point (and retreat) and than then artillery would wipe out the remaining strength from long distance. That just felt wrong and very unpleasant

Congrats on beating it - particularly to Kondi for doing it on the highest difficulty level. That's the level I playtest on myself. I know exactly what will happen in each scenario (aside from unpredictability in AI tactical decisions) but still it was an epic struggle. The trickiest part for me was knowing at what point to sound the retreat, because in order to extract slower units you need to have a mobile force with reasonably strength levels available to cover the retreat.

EDIT: Found a screenshot from my turn 11, when the initial line has been held just long enough. The southern part has began the retreat with the bunkers and tanks remaining to fight some desperate rearguard actions.

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[GiveWarAchance]

adherbal, looks like a fun game you had there facing a classic Soviet assault.
Are you part of the development team?

[Andy2012]

I've done it, Viipuri was defended.
I was able to keep the second line of defense, so all tasks completed.
Defense was desperate and heroic, look at the print screens.

Where did you get that T-34 tank, first screenshot?
Or am I not looking straight?
Only thing I ever got in Winter War were Vickers, T26, OT26 Flame, BT7, KV2 heavy tank. Okay, the Stugs III were way more useful.

[kondi754]

I've done it, Viipuri was defended.
I was able to keep the second line of defense, so all tasks completed.
Defense was desperate and heroic, look at the print screens.

Where did you get that T-34 tank, first screenshot?
Or am I not looking straight?
Only thing I ever got in Winter War were Vickers, T26, OT26 Flame, BT7, KV2 heavy tank. Okay, the Stugs III were way more useful.

I got T-34/40 during THIS scn. You have to destroy 2 or 3 units of the Russian T-34s. It seems to me that 3.

[kondi754]

Tali-Ihantala 44 Scn.
First objective accomplished - 2 secondary VP has been held.
The further game is going to be dramatic. I'm afraid it is too difficult for me this time.

[GiveWarAchance]

YOu got a lot of stuff, especially tanks and Stugs. How can you lose? Cut off those evil invaders and turn them red. You are the devious kondi.
In the top picture, looks like you got enough defense behind that island and blown bridges to stop anything with utter ease. That whole Russian battlegroup is stuck and needs to go around to the east to join the battle.

[kondi754]

YOu got a lot of stuff, especially tanks and Stugs. How can you lose? Cut off those evil invaders and turn them red. You are the devious kondi.
In the top picture, looks like you got enough defense behind that island and blown bridges to stop anything with utter ease. That whole Russian battlegroup is stuck and needs to go around to the east to join the battle.

I'm not worried about the west, but on the eastern section of the front pressure from an opponent is incredible.
I was able to stop them at this moment, the next objective done.

[GiveWarAchance]

LOoks like the badguys had a go at that western position despite the futility.
YOu sure have a lot of heavy arty and Russia has a ton of tanks and katyushas. That massed arty of yours must help a lot. Be careful about next to the creek on the left cause badguys are trying to squeeze through there.

[Andy2012]

@kondi: One thing that helped me a lot was mines, especially in the west. The AI reallys struggles with them and dithers around them endlessly.
I am also not sure if that is actually possible on the highest difficulty, but I never really retreated. Held my own in the south and only gave a little bit of ground in the west and the east in the last few turns. It was mostly about setting up your infantry around your AT in a star-shaped pattern, keeping the arty behind it and prioritising the fire missions. That way, I was never undersupplied like you are in the last few turns. 3-4 light infantry with a Stug or heavy AT in the middle, arty behind in a chokepoint works wonders. But also mostly because the AI could never really make up its mind. (And medium difficulty...)

[kondi754]

LOoks like the badguys had a go at that western position despite the futility.
YOu sure have a lot of heavy arty and Russia has a ton of tanks and katyushas. That massed arty of yours must help a lot. Be careful about next to the creek on the left cause badguys are trying to squeeze through there.

Now, when I received the support of heavy artillery it should be easier.
Thanks for the warning.

Post by Andy2012 » 19 Feb 2017 22:33
@kondi: One thing that helped me a lot was mines, especially in the west. The AI reallys struggles with them and dithers around them endlessly.
I am also not sure if that is actually possible on the highest difficulty, but I never really retreated. Held my own in the south and only gave a little bit of ground in the west and the east in the last few turns. It was mostly about setting up your infantry around your AT in a star-shaped pattern, keeping the arty behind it and prioritising the fire missions. That way, I was never undersupplied like you are in the last few turns. 3-4 light infantry with a Stug or heavy AT in the middle, arty behind in a chokepoint works wonders. But also mostly because the AI could never really make up its mind. (And medium difficulty...)

I do everything as you wrote, but there is no chance to stop the Russians for a long time in the east.
I think the only way is gradual retreat and causing maximum damage to the enemy, to catch breath for a little while.