newbie army help

[pyrrhus]

I was wondering if antbody has done or given thought to creating a list of troops and uses in FOG . some thing along the line of HI spear are good against these troops and bad vs these sort of thing ? It would help the newbie's learn faster and the game might be less of a frustrating expierence for someone who is new and hasn't read much history .Just a thought.Patrick

[philqw78]

How long a list do you want, the interactions are, if you include distance and dice/quality, infinate.e.g.

LH
LH , Bow.
Good skirmish troops that can tie up the enemy HF/MF or clear enemy LF. Best in wide open table. Keep them 3-4MU from LH with impact or melee weapons though. Given advantage of numbers they can concentrate fire to defeat other LH. Best target unprotected Cv/MF/HF, or if you can find it unprotected cv in 2 ranks etc
LH, Javelin, Light Spear
Need to get too close to shoot other LH but are better than most at impact, etc, etc

[pyrrhus]

just a basic list not covering every possible situation just general advice .Remember tis would be for people who haven't read a history book (like ie someone who's never heard of say alexander the great or Hannibal ) who thinks the movie 300 is historical fact . I would not include quality more of a generalization of what/ how troop types are used .

[hammy]

That is an interesting idea. Just a one pager would help people without a reasonable background in ancient troop types.

Are you thinking of something along these lines?

HF - solid close formation foot good mainly in open ground
Pike - the most powerfull type of heavy foot, strong against all troops, almost unstopable while steady, vulnerable to overlaps and missile fire
Spear - a good all round troop type, ideally needs to remain steady for full effect
Impact foot - as good as and possibly better than pike against foot but more vulnerable to mounted, capable of fighting reasonably in uneven ground
Heavy weapon - .....

[jhs]

This is a great idea. Coming at this game as a complete beginner--never played non-hex-map miniatures before, though have done a fair share of the hex-map variety--getting a grip on all the variety is a trick. I am sure it is easy for those coming from a DBx background, but for the rest of us... Local gamers suggested the "choose your favorite period of history" approach, which I would do if it wasn't 19th century English banking history (I could field an army of well-dressed accountants). Who knows, a bit of newbie-friendliness could expand the game, always a good thing!

Jim.

[pyrrhus]

Yeah a one pager would be great for people coming from the 40k/warmachine world s .if people want to elaborate on certain armys or troops that would be cool as well . (my experience's with Carthaginians etc) but a intro to tactics with a how to use your troops would really encourage those that might be frustrated learning the rules along with the laguage of those rules aswell as the historical terms of the armys etc etc . Just my though I want Ancients Gaming to Grow!!!! F@#$ those EMO scifi gamers (just kidding )

[Andy1972]

Myself, I like armies with a combined arms feel to them.. Some heavy foot with some light troops with some troops with a punch. If you get too lop sided in one troops type.. it will make you more vulnerable to another army. I like a balanced approach. That way if your in an open.. Your set up to face what ever comes up.. Generally.

[KingHassan]

Jim,
3 days this week there are local games you could sit in on.
Send word if you'd like to run a command.

John M.

[paulcummins]

wasnt there i huge long article written on the main forum (by MikeK?) in just these sort of terms - should have been stickied

[Redpossum]

wasnt there i huge long article written on the main forum (by MikeK?) in just these sort of terms - should have been stickied

viewtopic.php?t=6832

[dave_r]

That was significantly longer than a page!!!

Whilst I suspect this was useful, there was also a lot of "Stating the Bleedin' obvious" (please note this is not a go at Mike, I am sure people find it useful). A document of the type mentioned above would be just a brief precis of troops and what they should be used for.

Hammy briefly alluded to this and possibly with a bit of expansion would do the job. Just to expand:


LF/LH Used for skirmishing and hopeful disruption of enemy's formation prior to close combat occuring. Should not engage in close combat anything other than skirmishers. Massed LH can be more than a nuisance and with ganging up can break an enemy with repeated shooting.

MF: Broken down into cheap cheerleaders and those who are kings of rough going. Will usually struggle against HF or Mounted in the open.

HF - solid close formation foot good mainly in open ground
Sub Categoryies:
- Pike, the most powerfull type of heavy foot, strong against all troops, almost unstopable while steady, vulnerable to overlaps and missile fire
- Spear - a good all round troop type, needs to remain steady for full effect
- Impact foot - relies on disrupting the enemy during impact. In a protracted melee is likely to lose.
- Heavy weapon - solid troops which are unlikely to gain an advantage in any combat, but are conversely unlikely to be disadvantaged.

Cavalry - Those mounted who are more manoeverable than knights and do not solely rely upon the charge:
- Shooty Cavalry - those who aim to break an enemy primarily through shooting - can evade if in single rank and should frequently do so
- Heavy Cavalry - those armed with lance. Need careful timing to charge at exactly the right time to ensure good results. Powerful if used well.

Knights - Those troops who charge at first instance and are the true shock troops of the ancient world. Should avoid steady Pike or Spearmen, but can charge with impunity against most other troops. Careful use is required so they are not isolated and broken by shooting.

Elephants - Wil struggle against most foot (heavy foot are good in close combat and other shooters will have a field day) and are best used as an anti-mounted force. Useful in the middle of a line of foot otherwise vulnerable to mounted.

And so on...

[pyrrhus]

we should sticky these for a newbie section and yes stating the bleeding obvious is helpful to someone who has nevr played a miniatures game before (not trying to be a smart ass here) remeber the other games peolple play dont really use historical tactics . we want a game that is freindly to people that are totally new to this (card players? ) who are stopped dead in their tracts fist by the mini's then by the rules then by the historical subject . Everybody knows that the 10yr -12 yrs old crowd has control of 99% of all the worlds wealth and most of its politicians (being smart ass here) But I know every one remembers the first time they read about their favorite historical periods and got into ancients as a love .Nothing is better that having a set of rules where in you can use historical tactic's as FOG does . lets promote this thing !!! by geting new players .(in Colorado we are a dying breed ) but interest is growing and our first tourney seems to be coming (thank you CMH) .Any army specific info like this is helpful as well !!. just my two cents

[Redpossum]

And the "shiny" units that every n00b is drawn to, like chariots and elephants, should have a very careful treatment explaining their weaknesses, proper uses, and classic mistakes to be avoided when using them. This would save n00bs a lot of pain and disappointment.

[SirGarnet]

And the "shiny" units that every n00b is drawn to, like chariots and elephants, should have a very careful treatment explaining their weaknesses, proper uses, and classic mistakes to be avoided when using them. This would save n00bs a lot of pain and disappointment.

Getting people up to speed is what the tips compilation is intended to do, as well as including info and analysis from what should be obvious to the subtle. As a compilation it's intended to be comprehensive with something for everybody rather than tightly focused, and present what is the weight of expert opinion (when the experts reveal their secrets) as well as contrasting views.

There is certainly room for a concise and practical intro "FOG for Non-Wargamers: Read this First" type of piece pitched at new gamers who lack relevant historical knowledge. However, I think that most people would already have played enough to learn a fair amount the hard way before they get round to checking these forums. A handout short enough for distribution at demo games would be useful.

More in depth "How to Use . . ." articles would also be valuable, and possibly publishable in Slingshot, Spearpoint etc. I'd like to encourage tactical articles wrapped in a relevant battle report - really an excellent way to learn/teach.

Please feel to lift anything in the tactical tips compilation for content, or post such an article/outline or a hyperlinks in that thread.