Order of Battle to feature the Kriegsmarine!

[bcnkor5]

Order of Battle returns to its roots with this DLC and it expands to the icy waters of the North Sea and the Atlantic Ocean, pitting the Kriegsmarine against the might of the Royal Navy and its allies.

Order of Battle: Kriegsmarine features a subject rarely touched upon by other games and never with such level of detail: you will follow the German navy in its years-long campaign to challenge the Allied supremacy of the sea.

This will put you in situations which you’ve never faced before in the Order of Battle series. You will fight as the underdog and support land operations, perform convoy-raiding missions, lure enemy ships into deadly ambushes and make extensive use of submarines. Fight through historical and what-if scenarios alike and demonstrate you are the real master of the seas!

The game will feature iconic ships such as the Bismarck and the Scharnhorst, introduces a wide range of submarines, naval bombers, flying boats, gun boats, destroyers, cruisers, and it’ll be even possible to make use of the Graf Zeppelin carrier!

Kriegsmarine will start its beta soon. We are looking for willing and active beta testers to help us finding bugs and give us suggestions. We need your help, so if you’re interested click here and join the beta.
This beta will also be the first testing phase of the new skirmish mode, a much-anticipated feature in Order of Battle.

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A good initiative could be added to improvements such as the climate in the sea as a zone of fog, sea storms or areas of iceberg that is difficult the navigation or naval vision, as it is in reality, besides adding Boat minesweeper for the marine mines. Also be able to put the submarines in the editor game, in immersion mode or surface (This option is not yet in the editor). Also be able to see the base of German submarines.

More things to improve ...
What would you like next DLC campaign you'd find coming?
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 64&t=73212

and
12-Fix and activate these images to enhance the UI for Modders: These images added in the last update and other, are not active in the game or any MOD: Download 00 PC Order of Battle Series INACTIVE ICONS IN THE GAME 7-27-2016
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5zent ... 7-2016.rar

Example image Down: The stats_naval_1024 Icons UI still does not work on the MOD

[Shards]

Example image Down: The stats_naval_1024 Icons UI still does not work on the MOD

FWIW, I think this will be available soon. I pestered adherbal to enable it, mostly as I want to create a colour-blind friendly version! (I'd only just recently realised that there were multiple colours on there!)

[Andy2012]

@bcnkor, @shards: Uhm, okay.

Dont mean to be rude, but the word order and vocabulary is so messed up I can only guess what this is about. Something about buttons for the color blind as a mod? And climate fog? Dragamines? Have ze mighty Germans again overtaken zis thread for ze betterment of everyone?

[Mojko]

I'm always excited to hear about new content, but I must say that it's a rather odd choice to focus on Kriegsmarine. In the previous DLC we gained the ability to export core forces, thus it's now possible to link campaigns. The Kriegsmarine seems like it will not be able to use this feature. Other issue is that a lot of appeal of the naval warfare is the heavy use of carriers. Since this is Kriegsmarine I doubt this will be the case, I would expect focus on submarines which is not that exciting.

I personally like the scenarios where I can use land, naval and air units at the same time. This is why I think the Rising sun campaign is the best thus far. I think Afrika corps campaign would be a much better choice at this point. I would be really interested to hear the reasoning why was Kriegsmarine chosen instead of many other possibilities at this point.

[hadberz]

Sounds great! Signing up.

[adherbal]

Other issue is that a lot of appeal of the naval warfare is the heavy use of carriers. Since this is Kriegsmarine I doubt this will be the case, I would expect focus on submarines which is not that exciting.

Perhaps less focus on carriers than in the Pacific campaigns, but a fair share of them. Especially if you choose to get the Graf Zeppelin early in the war through Specializations.

On top of that we have added seaplane tender classes Greif (small floatplanes) and Bussard (flying boats) + torpedo & bomb armed floatplanes to make up for the lack of aircraft carriers early in the war.

So the Kriegsmarine campaign should have all the elements that make naval warfare interesting: surface warships, subs & aircraft (carriers)

[Erik2]

Sub ideas:

Subs had a variable number of torpedoes, say 12. Let the player choose between launching the standard 1-torpedo attack or a salvo of 2-4 (or more?) torpedoes increasing possible damage.
The sub should not have a reload period, but be able to fire single shots or salvos until they run out. In this case, 12 turns with single salvos or maybe 3 turns with 4-torpedo salvos.
This would allow them to be able to sink a major warship in maybe 2-3 turns if there are no escorting destroyers with reach.
Maybe the salvo option could be a specialization for the Germans.

[CJMello63]

Sounds great, sent in Beta app as well.

[bru888]

I feel the urge to say something but I don't know quite what it is or how to say it. Well, it's this: Whatever changes you folks make to naval warfare to suit Kriegsmarine, and presumably include in a patch, I hope they don't upset the gameplay for previous DLC.

I just finished Rising Sun and had a blast! Literally at times. I look forward to playing that campaign and U.S. Pacific again someday and I would like to be able to enjoy them just as much as the first time.

So, while I did talk earlier in this thread about "beefing up submarine capability but without letting it become too overpowering," I am having second thoughts about even just this mild a statement. I would like to be able to use my submarines to greater effect, yes. And I believe it should be a bit easier to detect and fight enemy submarines. But I don't want any changes that would undermine the gameplay balance in earlier DLC.

I saw that one idea was to make cargo ships in Kriegsmarine very weak, like strength 1. That may be a bit harsh (maybe 2 or 3 to allow for some ships to survive a torpedo attack?) but it's the right idea, in my opinion.

I told you that I would not know how to say it properly and I have now demonstrated this! It's just that I don't want to see us go through the "artillery nerf" debate again (see the thread "Artillery after the last patch"). Which, by the way, is just fine now in my opinion, having played through U.S. Pacific, U.S. Marines, Morning Sun, and now Rising Sun with patch 2.9.9. Please don't make any changes to artillery, either!

[adherbal]

I saw that one idea was to make cargo ships in Kriegsmarine very weak, like strength 1. That may be a bit harsh (maybe 2 or 3 to allow for some ships to survive a torpedo attack?) but it's the right idea, in my opinion.

That's just a specific scenario setup for the Wolfpacks mission. It's more fun blowing up many merchant ships than popping torpedoes in the same unit several times

The main goal is to offer more interesting choices in naval combat to affect the outcome, as well as make sure that each ship class is effective and unique in its own way.

A lot of these changes are also related to skirmish mode, which will include a number of purely naval (random) map types.

[Andy2012]

@adherbal: Sounds good. Apart from "crossing the T", OoB has no specific naval battle tactics right now - or am I completely wrong? Sure, torpedo bombers are effective against large ships, bombers against smaller ones and subs against almost nothing (as long as you dont get two or more near a carrier without destroyer escort).
Torpedo salvo fire would be interesting, but I am very unsure how that would play out in terms of fun and balancing. Would be realistic, though.
Another idea: Make subs and torpedo speed boats reinforce each others attack strength in the sense of a "swarm effect". A lone sub or a speed boat is useless, together with others, they are deadly. Right now, that only works in defensive AA fire (destroyers covering other ships). Alternatively, have a really powerful sub commander (attack against large ships +4 or more) and rather smallish bonus area for other units (maybe three or four hexes, it is a sea map, after all). PT Boats were also pretty much useless until now.
The same swarm effect could also be used in sub hunting. Right now, each destroyer scans individually and then attacks a found sub with a pretty high chance of total destruction in two hits. Destroyers could split up their hunting, one scans (larger scan range), the other (or several) does a waterbombing run on the hex. Additionally, you could add the feature of a blind attack as the artillery can do right now (shell a hex in the fog of war). I mean, this was the dynamic of sub warfare in WW2: Sneak up on a convoy (after weeks of loitering and boredom and rotting food and open, festering sores and stink), gather other subs, wait for night, emerge and do an attack run, fire a torpedo salvo, submerge, sneak away. Destroyers then do scan sweeps and afterwards attack, but cant do both at the same time: Scan only works when machines are stopped, too much noise. So Destroyers scan, find a sub, and attack blindly guessing where the sub will be when the bombs explode (kind of like deflection shooting in aerial dogfights). The sub meanwhile tries to crawl away submerged and dodge the blind salvos. Two destroyers or more however can split up the work via radio (one scans, one bombs) and thus make a more certain kill. Would maybe add a nice dynamic into naval tactics. Oh and please, dont do 60 turns in an empty ocean missions.

[Erik2]

I kind of miss the return fire of the defender in naval engagements, similar to land/air defenders returning fire.
Currently you can gang up on a ship and fire away to the cows come home.

I would suggest allowing return fire, but lower the efficiency of the defender each it shoots back.

Another old suggestion. Some kind of lowering movement range for ships suffering extensive damage.

[zakblood]

I would suggest allowing return fire, but lower the efficiency of the defender each it shoots back.

Another old suggestion. Some kind of lowering movement range for ships suffering extensive damage.

both sounds like good idea's to me

[bru888]

I tremble at the words uttered between my last post and this one of mine. However, you developers managed the artillery transition concerning existing DLC okay, so I have faith that you will do the same for any alterations to naval warfare.

[bru888]

Heh, I'm so nervous, I double-posted!

[bcnkor5]

Example image Down: The stats_naval_1024 Icons UI still does not work on the MOD

FWIW, I think this will be available soon. I pestered adherbal to enable it, mostly as I want to create a colour-blind friendly version! (I'd only just recently realised that there were multiple colours on there!)

Shards: Thank you very much, it is a long time since we can not modify the UI of a great game.

Download 00 PC Order of Battle Series INACTIVE ICONS IN THE GAME 7-27-2016
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5zent ... 7-2016.rar
As for example these images still can not be changed even with the last update...

[GiveWarAchance]

I kind of miss the return fire of the defender in naval engagements, similar to land/air defenders returning fire.
Currently you can gang up on a ship and fire away to the cows come home.

I would suggest allowing return fire, but lower the efficiency of the defender each it shoots back.

Another old suggestion. Some kind of lowering movement range for ships suffering extensive damage.

I like these ideas too. I think if you lower the efficiency of return fire, it should only be a little lower cause it depends on the crew and ship quality more than initiative in naval combat I think cause even if a ship spots the enemy first, it takes a number of straddling shots before scoring hits usually so the initiative advantage would not last long unless the attacker has a radar advantage which can create a huge advantage like the US Navy had in Surigao Strait.

[WarHomer]

I´m still hoping for better tie in and focus on carry over like in PG/PC.

I´m currently doing a blind playthrough of PC (East) and are up to 1943 and I really cringe my toes when a good unit I´ve had since 1939 gets into trouble (and sometimes die). I also love the diversity and replayability of carry-over, so I can try new unit compostions and such.

I was really hoping for this with the German campaign and also that it would somehow tie in the kriegsmarine, since the diversity of air, land and sea units is what really sets this game apart.

[guille1434]

After seeing the screenshots uploaded in the slitherine web page, I noticed there are a lot of interesting aircraft and warship icons... Would it be possible to upload some of those graphics to make icons for Panzer Coprs game? Just in the way it was done with the unit graphics uploaded when the OOB Blitzkrieg Expansion was launched... Thanks!

[GiveWarAchance]

I´m still hoping for better tie in and focus on carry over like in PG/PC.

I´m currently doing a blind playthrough of PC (East) and are up to 1943 and I really cringe my toes when a good unit I´ve had since 1939 gets into trouble (and sometimes die). I also love the diversity and replayability of carry-over, so I can try new unit compostions and such.

I was really hoping for this with the German campaign and also that it would somehow tie in the kriegsmarine, since the diversity of air, land and sea units is what really sets this game apart.

I also want to have core ships that you can use for the whole campaign. Naval aspect of OOB is good so I want more of it. In Panzer Corp East campaign, it is easy to lose units when the enemy dogpile on one and beat it up repeatedly on their turn especially when they use arty and guard infantry units together. I repeat a mission when I lose too much stuff cause it will weaken your core too much for future battles.