Sanctus Reach Beta Update v1.0.2

[zakblood]

wasn't an idea, it was how it used to be in beta, now they come out on death un harmed, try your own transporters and see how they fair

[Dizzy_slith]

wasn't an idea, it was how it used to be in beta, now they come out on death un harmed, try your own transporters and see how they fair

Well, maybe someone fixed it. Units should be able to disembark if their transport dies. The units should each take a hit, but they shouldnt die. That's ridiculous.

[zakblood]

in real live, the amount who get out of a destroyed transport, alive or able to fight, are low in numbers, but yes seems it's altered now, for the better or worse depends on which side your on id guess

[Dizzy_slith]

in real live, the amount who get out of a destroyed transport, alive or able to fight, are low in numbers, but yes seems it's altered now, for the better or worse depends on which side your on id guess

Ok, if you want to argue about it... The U.S. Military recognized that IED's were killing the occupants of the transports that were transporting them. They now have new transports that are designed to be destroyed and yet protect their occupants. I dont think Battlewagons have seatbelts, but Im talking about blast deflection, and the sturdiness of the transport, which I dont think would be a question when looking at all that armor on board a battlewagon. And I dont doubt the Imperium's ability to do the same.

In the TT game, in an older edition, units of a transport took a single strength 3 hit. This has probably been changed, as GW comes out with a new Rulebook every six months now and I cant keep up, sadly.

But Im gonna argue for gameplay perspective. If you kill all the occupants of a battlewagon or rhino, you ruin game balance to something akin to a cheat. In real war, hey, thats what you want to do, crush your enemy. But killing multiple units in one blow sounds like an exploit to me, and one that I wouldnt want to inflict on an enemy or a mission because it would be a cheap ass way to win making the mission a cake walk because you took advantage of a game designers flaw. So DONT do it.

Heres another thing, if you want to make it non-game breaking, but add in some realism, have the occupants of the transport thats killed all suffer moral loss and take a hit. That would be the best of both worlds. But if Sanctus Reach kills the occupants of the transport when it dies, thats just bad gameplay. Period.

[zakblood]

there's no argument from me, and as i also have no idea about the rule book or lore, i'll stop here, my comments are from what i see, not how i play, as i don't play games much now days, only test them.



from a pure testing stand point, if something alters from one build to anther, like the smoke which you can't flame through etc, i mention it, if i like it or not, matters little to me, it's just a comment for the developers.

[Dizzy_slith]

Most the comments Ive made have been aimed at the devs. I have given detailed feedback on fantastic really great ways that shouldnt be hard for the devs to make that would make this game be amazing. My comments are mostly in line with what everyone wants. I have a background in game development and running game servers and I know firsthand that players only show up to play a game when its fun and enjoyable. And Straylight has a great game here, but honestly, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. They have some SERIOUSLY bad issues straight out of the box that need fixing in the NEXT patch, not 3 weeks from now because people are reviewing this product and making judgements on it for its flaws and they are mostly all talking about the SAME thing. Check out these reviews below and you tell me if I'm wrong.

If you look at the most common complaints on Steam, like this one by Looch, "No customization for the units nor army... Orks are basically like canon fodders for SM" and Byrk, "Orkz have no chance unless you massively outplay your opponent and get lucky with the random draft list, giving you Flash Gitz, or a good selection of the few units that actually do damage. Every game is the same. Orkz have 90% fodder army with a few units capable of doing damage (and that's in a very large army game)" and hundred1proof, "no unit loadout customization. The lack of customization and choosing what your squads carry ruins it" and Wilson [MG], "There's a good variety of units to choose from but no customization" and bad_syntax, "unit selection very limited" and Medicus, "- no inventory for troops
- no complete army builder" and The Fo-Sho, "there is no unit customization at all".

Do you see a trend? The majority of the negative reviews on Steam are all about the lack of an Army Builder, among other things. Here's a post I made with my solutions to Straylights problem: Force Organization, Force Points, Wargear and AI selection These suggestions I posted would fix the most common complaint about this game. I wrote those changes to be as friendly to the way they have it now so it would be easy to do. I was in depth enough to even discuss the armylist.txt file which supposedly has something to do with the random units that are displayed in the selection list. Upping Flash Gitz and Warbikers to 30 in that file makes them show up more in random skirmishes as choices. Leaving the file alone they usually dont ever show up as choices. So yeah, I cant argue with the negative detractors slamming this game on account it lacks customization, you cant choose the units you like, and wargear upgrades are not available.

Straylight can dick around all it wants on making their game prettier by focusing on flag size, hotkeys to toggle health bars and icons, and making Ork flags more visible when zoomed out and that's all fine and dandy, but when you have players like those above lambasting the game negatively in a review forum about the SAME issue, if it were my company, I'd get every one of my employees working to fix it pronto because that kinda sh!t is hurting sales and creating an inhospitable preconception that you dont want this game to have. (I used to run a real estate business for 20 years and owned an advertising company) so I might know what I'm talking about, or not, that's up to you. So after your next cheerleader patch, lets have something substantial like an Army Builder and customization options like here: Force Organization, Force Points, Wargear and AI selection

What'd even be better is if Straylight would come right out and say it, that their Force Organization was not implemented well and the units are unfortunately random and they dont like it either and are gonna change it so we as players have control over what exactly we want to fight in battle. Which is what would make us happy.

It's not my game. Its Straylights game. So they're gonna do whatever they see as best for them regardless of what I say or their customers say. But when they have about EVERYONE telling them we want an Army Builder. Give it to us. Soon before more negative reviews come out and hurt this games chances of success. I gave it a great review on Steam. I believe in this game. I believe in the devs. But instead of saying they are listening, I want to hear, yeah, we agree, our Force Organization sucks and we are gonna make an Army Builder for you guys. Well, I'd die happy.

[zakblood]

the more feedback and opinions the better, keep them coming as most are what has already been said to be fair, so agree whole hearty with them as well, everyone wants a better game, me included, as i'm a player first and foremost, a testers, is just an hobby and is always 2nd, a mod on the board 3rd, to help out when and where needed.

the right feedback and opinions and more results / data, comments are given, the right direction can be sort, and the patches can be made, points and balance altered etc etc.

it#s all being listened to, as admin and the developers have been on and made the statements clear, i have no role in this so add my own comments as feelings and impressions and opinions from and behalf of myself

[ImperialGrunt]

units still deploying from blown transports and not dying with the carrier truck.

Wait, units embarked in a transport are supposed to die when the transport dies? No! That's a cheap ass way to win. I vehemently oppose that idea.

Are you saying that the occupants should be invulnerable when the vehicle they are inside suddenly blows up around them?

In the TT occupants in a destroyed vehicle suffer a random amount of wounds albiet they still get their armor save and other saves such as Feel No Pain if they have it. For SR, I would vote for the occupants all sustaining a random amount of damage (which could kill some of them) and they also suffer a morale penalty.

[zakblood]

Are you saying that the occupants should be invulnerable when the vehicle they are inside suddenly blows up around them?

In the TT occupants in a destroyed vehicle suffer a random amount of wounds albiet they still get their armor save and other saves such as Feel No Pain if they have it. For SR, I would vote for the occupants all sustaining a random amount of damage (which could kill some of them) and they also suffer a morale penalty.

for me, if your asking for my opinion, and it's my own personnel opinion and from testing this in alpha, and beta, so rather a long time btw,

yes, i'd like to see a random chance of all dead, wounded, suffer a morale penalty or shock at least from a blown up transporter, from either side, not just one, so agree with you and also this one would get my vote if it was asked or put to one

[Dizzy_slith]

units still deploying from blown transports and not dying with the carrier truck.

Wait, units embarked in a transport are supposed to die when the transport dies? No! That's a cheap ass way to win. I vehemently oppose that idea.

Are you saying that the occupants should be invulnerable when the vehicle they are inside suddenly blows up around them?

In the TT occupants in a destroyed vehicle suffer a random amount of wounds albiet they still get their armor save and other saves such as Feel No Pain if they have it. For SR, I would vote for the occupants all sustaining a random amount of damage (which could kill some of them) and they also suffer a morale penalty.

No, not invulnerable. Just not dead. Im not opposed to zakbloods idea that they should be randomly wounded and or suffer morale hit. Just not dead.

[zakblood]

not wanting to start a point on it, by why not dead?

if it's a random chance, meaning you let it get too close etc, or the AI brought it too close,.

then imo it should be a chance for a full wipe out, no matter how slim, as it's a ambush, and this is something atm which isn't in the game, which imo could add to it?

or all you need to do atm, is ride the transports until they get wiped out, then unload them right in the other players ZOC?

doesn't seem right to me either, i know a totally wipe out will be a unbalancing factor, but if you wish to avoid these sort of tactics in gaming, imo it needs or maybe should be in it?

debate open

[Dizzy_slith]

not wanting to start a point on it, by why not dead?

if it's a random chance, meaning you let it get too close etc, or the AI brought it too close,.

then imo it should be a chance for a full wipe out, no matter how slim, as it's a ambush, and this is something atm which isn't in the game, which imo could add to it?

or all you need to do atm, is ride the transports until they get wiped out, then unload them right in the other players ZOC?

doesn't seem right to me either, i know a totally wipe out will be a unbalancing factor, but if you wish to avoid these sort of tactics in gaming, imo it needs or maybe should be in it?

debate open

Because I feel that a battlewagon that holds 20 troops and kills them all because the AI made a stupid move and let me tag the back armor with a melta squad turns the mission into wasted time as it would be neither challenging after that nor beneficial to my troops experience wise because the enemy is all dead.

[zakblood]

agreed, if the AI does it it's a silly move, but if your online and the other player does it, it's game over and you win.

but it's not about just winning either, it's to stop a gamey tactic of loading one up and driving it to your base and unloading, then again i hardly play online apart from testing it, so just a comment to make the online maybe a bit more challenging and stop the climb on and ride into battle then get off in tack when it's blown and carry on fighting as if you were air dropped etc

[Dizzy_slith]

Never said I opposed a unit getting hurt and dropping their morale, just dont kill the units embarked when a transport died. And now you know how the Imperium must feel about the gamey way Orks invade from space. They load up unto some kinda big steel bucket, land somewhere and pour out like a green sludge.

[ImperialGrunt]

That brings up another point. Should troops be able to dismount and move with all their action points in the same turn?

In the TT, units that disembark cannot assault that same turn, unless the vehicle is open topped. In my opinion, disembarking from non open topped vehicle should use up most of a unit's action points, particularly for movement. Open topped vehicles (I don't think there are any currently) would require less.

Currently the 3rd Edition "Rhino Rush" tactic exits in SR.

[zakblood]

i don't think a unit should be able to move, mount, then travel in a carrier then dismount and move and fire no

[Dizzy_slith]

That brings up another point. Should troops be able to dismount and move with all their action points in the same turn?

In the TT, units that disembark cannot assault that same turn, unless the vehicle is open topped. In my opinion, disembarking from non open topped vehicle should use up most of a unit's action points, particularly for movement. Open topped vehicles (I don't think there are any currently) would require less.

Currently the 3rd Edition "Rhino Rush" tactic exits in SR.

Open topped like the Battlewagon and Land Raider thats specifically an assault vehicle, Yes, I think units should not be able to charge after disembark from a rhino. But that kinda ruins the flow of the game... I like the pace that it has.

Im really split on this issue.

[crosshairs]

Great graphics and terrific game play. However, the Orks just are too overwhelming at times and I don't really see two entirely different campaigns! The second campaign seems to be same as first, just more difficult as you are facing more units. Sorry, I Guess I'm just used to Warhammer Dawn of War with all its missions. Anyway I wish you success with the game. Would like to see forces balanced a bit more and hopefully you will add on more factions in the future. Sincerely Croshairs.

[Moonreaver]

So I have actually been in a transport that hit an IED. Not fun, broke my back in 3 places, ruptured 2 internal organs, wound up getting shot 3 times, several friends died. And this was a crap 5-ton and I was wearing a flak jacket.

So yea.......I am figuring a Land Raider Twin Autocannon would hurt, not to mention a Titan stomping a Rhino's face Now we are not talking a Rhino running over a IED, we are talking a Rhino getting Jacket by a Heavy Support or Supper Heavy.

The good news is I lived, can't move around to much. I grabbed my rifle though and kept fighting on the ground shouting Random Gabriel Angelos quotes (After the friendly Navy Corpsman shot me up with Morphine)

But yea, game play wise, I can see how, especially with Orks, if you blow a transport, it would wipe a massive part of their forces out.

Could have a 1 round stun.

One of my favorite tactics is filling a Rhino with Lasercannons/Rockets and moving forward 1 less then 1/2 the Rhino movement length and sniping with those units. Against some of the Ork Units like Flash Gitz/Nobs, etc, etc it makes a massive difference (Talking strictly single player here)

(Speaking of which I about crapped my pants the first time I realized the Ork version of a Titan class unit was also a transport!!!)

[Moonreaver]

Great graphics and terrific game play. However, the Orks just are too overwhelming at times and I don't really see two entirely different campaigns! The second campaign seems to be same as first, just more difficult as you are facing more units. Sorry, I Guess I'm just used to Warhammer Dawn of War with all its missions. Anyway I wish you success with the game. Would like to see forces balanced a bit more and hopefully you will add on more factions in the future. Sincerely Croshairs.

It gets better once you get a Titan and Top tier units. Land Raiders, Laser Cannons (Which act as Snipers and work on any unit) etc etc. Draw the orks into traps, Load Rhino's full of ranged troops, move a bit, unload, fire with your troops (Do not fire with Rhino) and then load up and move back out. Hit and run a bit.

And blood claws are pretty much Jr. Space Marines, that are not Assault Marines, I do not think this game really has Jump packs in the traditional sense (I mean you can move around the screen fast, but no jump and come down and smash face) Claws are very fragile till you level them a bit

On another though, I do with we had a version of Tactical Marines that we could upgrade (Much like Dawn of War with different loadouts)

(I know the game has SkyClaws and the Orks's version, but the skyclaws are worse then the bloodclaws 5 less Armour and 5 less attack)