2000 man bow and bill units

[SnuggleBunnies]

I was wondering why the bow and bill units are so massive. The Elizabethan foot I get, as they are trying replicate the pike tactics on the continent, but I don't really understand the logic behind the massive bow and bill units.

No other non keil unit in the game is 2000 men. Even Early Tercios, which have 1000 men, are immune to flank attacks. Bow and bill units also have far less firepower than the 500 man longbowmen units, leaving little reason for a player to get them. On top of that, their presence tends to weirdly inflate English armies, which often outnumber their enemies 2-1.

Wouldn't it make more sense if these units we either 500 men with 50% bow 50% heavy weapon, or 1000 men? I accept that, not being even partially pike armed, they should suffer from flank attacks, but this would enable them to utilize their firepower more effectively. It's not exactly that I feel that English armies are underpowered - it's quite possible to use them well, especially in good terrain - it just feels weird to have these massive units bumbling around. Maybe the units could be smaller and a little cheaper, so at least English armies aren't so weirdly inflated. Thoughts?

[TheGrayMouser]

My opinion is that those units perhaps inflate the overall "# of men" in the army but are not particularly great units themselves which makes the list somewhat subpar compared to continental ones. My guess is that is the intent, as the English had no real unit organization per se except for deploying in 3 battles like a medieval host. I think Henry always had to scramble to get as many mercenaries he could to make up for the antiquated local troops.

[SnuggleBunnies]

I'm not saying they're overpowered, it's just weird. I wouldn't mind if they were 1000 man units with slightly better firepower, even if they cost the same.

[jomni]

Which army list? Which scenario or campaign? Maybe there's a multiplier of 4x implemented to match historical total numbers.

[SnuggleBunnies]

The two English army lists in Age of Machiavelli, preceding the Elizabethan Era

[rbodleyscott]

My opinion is that those units perhaps inflate the overall "# of men" in the army but are not particularly great units themselves which makes the list somewhat subpar compared to continental ones. My guess is that is the intent, as the English had no real unit organization per se except for deploying in 3 battles like a medieval host. I think Henry always had to scramble to get as many mercenaries he could to make up for the antiquated local troops.

This