About Ashigaru

[cranston]

I have questions regarding the differences between the "early" Ashigaru vs the Late Ashigaru.
The "early" Ashigaru has so many advantages over the Late Ashigaru.
They had more movement points, and, being warriors, could charge cavalry.
What's the reasoning behind this seeming downgrade?

[GShock112]

Modernization of the army and conscription in mass numbers didn't allow the real training used by the warlords of the initial period.
I don't know how they are implemented in the late game, all I know is the Tenka Fubu... in theory their units should be bigger and the ashigaru should take different roles, archers, cavalry, bombards...

[jomni]

I have questions regarding the differences between the "early" Ashigaru vs the Late Ashigaru.
The "early" Ashigaru has so many advantages over the Late Ashigaru.
They had more movement points, and, being warriors, could charge cavalry.
What's the reasoning behind this seeming downgrade?

It's historical flavour and evolution of tactics.
One advantage for late is you have noticed is that there are no poor class Late Ashigaru. This represents more standardised training and discipline.
But game wise, warriors seem to have some slight advantage vs Medium Foot.

[cranston]

But game wise, warriors seem to have some slight advantage vs Medium Foot.

Huge advantage vs armies with significant bow cavalry.
Poor ashigaru can't even try to chase them away.
Only stand and be pincushioned.

On another note, I have absolutely no idea how to use teppo ashigaru.
Best I can figure is get in 1 turn of shooting (+2 turns reaction fire) and then lose in melee.

[GShock112]

Try to make the enemy engage in a spot where you can shoot them from the flanks. That's where you should push your teppo. They are the perfect skirmishers and they are hard to catch.

[cranston]

Try to make the enemy engage in a spot where you can shoot them from the flanks. That's where you should push your teppo. They are the perfect skirmishers and they are hard to catch.

Teppo are warriors or medium foot. Not skirmishers. That's what makes them so hard to use.

[Paul59]

Try to make the enemy engage in a spot where you can shoot them from the flanks. That's where you should push your teppo. They are the perfect skirmishers and they are hard to catch.

Teppo are warriors or medium foot. Not skirmishers. That's what makes them so hard to use.

GShock has only been playing the Tenka Fubu camapaign, and in that era the Teppo are light foot skirmishers. In later armies the skirmishers Teppo seem to be replaced by the Medium Foot/Warrior types. You need to try and keep them protected by terrain or yari armed units.

Cheers

[cranston]

You need to try and keep them protected by terrain or yari armed units.

Cheers

Any tips on how to go about protecting them? Protecting yumi ashigaru is simple since archers can shoot overhead and I can just put them behind a yari unit. But that doesn't work with teppo.

[SnuggleBunnies]

Well, it depends who you are facing. Against cavalry, rough terrain or trees are sufficient. Against ranged infantry - it depends. Ashigaru archers are no better in melee, so you can move forward without support and mow them down. Samurai archers are trained swordsmen and will cut down your teppo in melee, so you might want to keep a yari unit near enough to support.

Against yari armed infantry, just keep friendly infantry nearby - ideally, in a position to flank attack the enemy if they charge your teppo. If you're lucky, you can disrupt the enemy with a single volley. If not, you can either charge in with your infantry, or gamble on your teppo not breaking from impact, and then charge. That way, the enemy unit will be fighting two units at once and suffer the resulting penalties.

Even if your teppo are broken, keep in mind that they are relatively cheap troops - they can have a disproportionate effect on the course of the battle for their low point value.

[GShock112]

Teppo are the perfect skirmishers... hard to catch and can do some serious damage if left unchecked.
I find them very strong in defense when you place them in the woods but to keep them shooting you must shoot either the second lines from your flanks or just plainly go to engage other missile units (mainly other teppos who have the same problem with their line of sight being blocked by other units).

Out of the many unit types, this is the one that requires the most advanced planning. If you can't make them fit into the plan they're going to be useless in just 2 turns of combat and depending on the army composition it could be a problem that changes the outcome of battle.