old Potzblitz thread (discontinued)

[Robotron]

Race to the sea:
As long as almost any ground unit can move at least 6 hexes in one turn and with the current railway movement there is no way a "race to the sea" can happen. As soon as the proposed neutral strip would be unlocked the first side to move would reach the coast in one turn with a garrison/cavalry held in reserve just for this purpose, which can hardly be called a race.

Stormtroopers:
Instead of introducing yet another unit it might be better to significantly raise the cost and effectiveness of the "infiltration tactics" upgrade. Maybe +10 to assault and shock at 20 points cost? Thing is: the AI would rarely apply this since it's constantly stripped for cash by building lines of infantry 5 ranks deep. I rarely see it building tanks at all even after lowering the cost to 30pp.

Btw: the ratio of "special units" to infantry (the default type of unit to produce for the AI) seems to be controlled by this part in ai_economics.lua

Code: Select all

 if info.frontlineGaps < 0 and canAfford and unitsInProdQueue < 1 then
    if protoInfo.name == "fighter" then
      if IsTechCompleted("armed_fighter", faction) then
        score = score + 7 + game.turn%3
      else
        score = score + 5 + game.turn%3
      end
    elseif protoInfo.name == "bomber" then
      score = score + 7 + (game.turn+1)%3
    elseif protoInfo.name == "armour" then
      score = score + 7 + (game.turn+2)%3
    end
    score = score + (faction.pp/1000)
  end

You might want to experiment with the values for the "score" variable on your own, I couldn't see any great difference by using different values though, at least for France and GB.

I guess my current problem with Russia building no units at all might be connected with having changed those values too much or with the AIs inability to define "fronts" when you advance too far and too fast into Russia.

[mhl67]

snip

My problem isn't so much with a "race to the sea" so much as the fact that the Entente and CP deploy troops to it too early. No one at the time really saw the significance of the coastal strip - the Germans were trying to envelop Paris, and the Entente were trying alternately to push into Alsace-Lorraine or the Germans back into Belgium and away from Paris. It was only apparent to the Germans that a direct strike at Paris was no longer possible that they tried to outflank the Entente by securing their coastal flank, and vice versa. Not to mention from what I can see, the actual "race" part of the Race to the Sea only last for about two weeks. None of this would be a problem except that I think it's another factor in why it's difficult to see results similar to 1914 in game.

As for Stormtroopers, I'd rather have them in game then stuff like cavalry, which was barely relevant anywhere except the Middle East. Not that I want cavalry gone, but I'd like to have Stormtrooper corps. Not just because there is a real life precedent for it, but also because the units right now feel pretty generic. It's pretty much just build regular infantry, artillery occasionally, and garrisons when you need to plug gaps. You don't really get a feel you're specializing in anything.

[Robotron]

CTGW is no serious wargame, it's PanzerGeneral going WW1 with some pseudo-techtree bolted on. The map has too few hexes for too many units and no unit stacking so you get blocked too fast, that's the main design flaw imho.

Nonetheless I'm still getting rather historically accurate situations in the west most of the times when I play this mod, sometimes even managing to directly attack Paris in 1914 and force the "stalemate" event or capture Calais.
Capturing Paris in 1914 is possible if you know exactly what you are doing and have a bit of luck as fellow forum member nehi has mentioned several times.

[Zombo]

Regarding stormtroopers, is it possible to make the cost or the bonus for the "infiltration" tech variable, depending on the faction?

It should be either cheaper, or more powerful, for the Germans, as it was typically a German thing ( the other countries did not favour the idea of assault being a "specialist" thing, although in same case some ad hoc assault troops were formed)

[Robotron]

Regarding stormtroopers, is it possible to make the cost or the bonus for the "infiltration" tech variable, depending on the faction?

Unfortunately this is not possible as every tech applies to all of the factions in the game in the same way and there is no way to mod in faction-specific techs without competely re-coding the whole technology system from scratch.

[Zombo]

I was also thinking... because of the Cossacks event which ( if I understood right) reduces German morale for enemy-occupied German hexes...

When static warfare settles in on the Western Front, there should be a ( actually huge) bonus for the attacker and penalty for the defender when any hex is captured. During Trench warfare, the focus scale of the war became minuscule: the capture of some flattened hill or the ruins of a village would make national headlines. When the British managed to make their initial breakthrough at Cambrai ( minimal in terms of territorial gain), all the church bells of the United Kingdom rang for victory. In the same way, the combatless advance of a few kilometres when the Germans retreated to the Hindenburg Line was hailed as a major success. In the scale of the game, capturing a whole hex would equate to a stupendous victory. It would bring huge confidence to the attacker, and equal demoralisation to the defeated.
of course, It should be extremely difficult to capture an hex, probably more than it is now.

[nehi]

of course, It should be extremely difficult to capture an hex, probably more than it is now

i hope u r just kidding, i havent lost a single mp game in vanilla as entente, because no one is able to break my trenches

in potzblitz where aircrafts are nerfed just to recon and +4D tech comes faster, there is no chance

[Robotron]

I was also thinking... because of the Cossacks event which ( if I understood right) reduces German morale for enemy-occupied German hexes...
there should be a ( actually huge) bonus for the attacker and penalty for the defender when any hex is captured. .

I assume with "bonus" you mean morale bonus? Actually this is already happening "behind the scenes" (in singleplayer mode at least) until the German attack in the west is halted and Moltke gets fired. Never thought about continuing the effect for the rest of the game but it's worth giving that a thought.
Of course that could lead to a "sudden death" of a faction if a large enough breakthrough is achieved by the enemy. How large should the bonus/penalty be? Maybe +1 morale for the first hex, +2 for the second, +3 for the third etc. up to a possible maximum of maybe 20?

[nehi]

i dont tbelieve draining morale through occupying pointless hexes is the right way...

maybe when u lose 1 hex u lose 1% morale, but when u get it back u get back morale

just no more cossacks like

i guess strategy game should be decided by reaching goals, not by owning swamps or icebergs

[Zombo]

Of course that could lead to a "sudden death" of a faction if a large enough breakthrough is achieved by the enemy.

Well, that's kinda what happened in 1918 when the Allies counterattacked. The morale effect of losing the ground was enough to force the Germans to surrender ( combined with the allied breakthrough on the Salonika front, for which the Germans had no reserves to spare).

Of course, it depends on the hex. regarding Nehi's comment, yes, the Germans would not have cared about an hex of the Pripjet marshes. But the hexes on the Western front all contain at least a few non-negligible urban centres ( due to urban density in the west) and the slightest landmark became of paramount importance, in fact, became goals of their own. Allied offensives had no real long-term objectives, they "just" aimed at achieving a breakthrough, that is, proving to their side that they are able to break the stalemate, while shattering the German hope that they could hold the line indefinitely.
The German Strafexpedition ( punitive expedition) of Caporetto just aimed at punishing Italian morale and uplifting German morale with a success on the battlefield.

So I would suggest: For Germany, France and UK, hexes ion France and Germany should be of critical importance. I don't know how much a city is worth, but it should be something like half, at least.
For Italy, hexes in Italy should be of critical importance, and for AH, hexes in AH.
For Russia, hexes in Germany.

hexes in Italy, AH, Serbian/Balkanic front should be of secondary importance for Germany and AH. Serbian/Balkanic of secondary importance for France/UK. Hexes in AH of secondary importance for Russia (except swamps).

hexes in Russia of lower importance to Russia, AH and Russia itself, except Swamps

russian swamps no importance to anyone

BTW, I also believe there should be a morale bonus for France ( and a smaller bon us for UK) for each American army in France. It is commonly admitted that without their presence both British and French morale would probably have crumbled due to the staggering initial successes of Kaiserschlacht.

[Robotron]

Okay, I'll add a function that will keep track of all the hexes owned by the factions, where every gain or loss will affect the factions morale in relation to the specific front's importance. Not sure if this is viable for singleplayer games vs AI but for multiplayers this should be in order, I guess.

BTW, I also believe there should be a morale bonus for France ( and a smaller bon us for UK) for each American army in France. It is commonly admitted that without their presence both British and French morale would probably have crumbled due to the staggering initial successes of Kaiserschlacht.

Again, this was already implemented by me, albeit only in singleplayer mode vs Entente AI. Each US unit in France will add a moral bonus to France and GB and reduce German morale per turn. I will make this available for multiplayer if this is deemed a good thing by multiplayers.

P.S. no offense, but I'm quite well-versed about the history of WW1 myself, so for the sake of brevity please refrain from long-winded lectures and just get down to the point from a game-balance-point of view.

[Zombo]

if this is deemed a good thing by multiplayers

It is. Thanks a lot!

so for the sake of brevity please refrain from long-winded lectures and just get down to the point from a game-balance-point of view.

sorry...

[Vokt]

CTGW is no serious wargame, it's PanzerGeneral going WW1 with some pseudo-techtree bolted on. The map has too few hexes for too many units and no unit stacking so you get blocked too fast, that's the main design flaw imho.

I sort of disagree here. All commander series (CEAW, CNAW and CTGW) are supposed to be strategic games. So to start with one of the things that makes CTGW less serious than the other two previous titles, is to include all of those units that surely were added for chrome but that shouldn't be in a strategic game. I'm referring to:

- artillery units
- armoured train units
- armoured car units
- zeppelins
- etc

Having included all of those type of units in CTGW is what makes this game poorly serious as a strategic wargame. Those type of units are more suited in a tactical game not in a strategic one.

I much like the mod but as long as we keep artillery units and all of the rest that has been mentioned as independent units, the game won't ever be serious enough.

[Zombo]

Robotron

my pals and I are planning a little tournament, but we were just wondering if you were about to release another update in the next couple of weeks, 'cause if you do we'll just wait, and if you don't we'll just get started

thanks again for the good work

[nehi]

Robotron

my pals and I are planning a little tournament, but we were just wondering if you were about to release another update in the next couple of weeks, 'cause if you do we'll just wait, and if you don't we'll just get started

thanks again for the good work

what was the furthest point cp were able to reach so far?

[Zombo]

in our case, nowhere close to Paris

In Russia, variable

In Serbia, tough for the CP because of the possibility of massive expeditionary corps

[nehi]

in our case, nowhere close to Paris

In Russia, variable

In Serbia, tough for the CP because of the possibility of massive expeditionary corps

france expectable

just russia bit surprising, they dont have such massive forces in mp as in sp?
i guess russia should be trenched sooner than cp can strike em with some significant force
but maybe u moved powerfull units from serbian front to hold russia, what saved their asses, just with garrisons and no commander they couldnt survive long

cp side has to be wihout any chance to win in mp

in vanilla they have chance as long as they have initiativity, in potzblitz they are out of initiativity in moment russia joins the war

[operating]

Okay, I'll add a function that will keep track of all the hexes owned by the factions, where every gain or loss will affect the factions morale in relation to the specific front's importance. Not sure if this is viable for singleplayer games vs AI but for multiplayers this should be in order, I guess.

BTW, I also believe there should be a morale bonus for France ( and a smaller bon us for UK) for each American army in France. It is commonly admitted that without their presence both British and French morale would probably have crumbled due to the staggering initial successes of Kaiserschlacht.

Again, this was already implemented by me, albeit only in singleplayer mode vs Entente AI. Each US unit in France will add a moral bonus to France and GB and reduce German morale per turn. I will make this available for multiplayer if this is deemed a good thing by multiplayers.

P.S. no offense, but I'm quite well-versed about the history of WW1 myself, so for the sake of brevity please refrain from long-winded lectures and just get down to the point from a game-balance-point of view.

Been keeping an eye on your mod, tempted to give it a go, have not played vanilla or MP in some time, miss the game...

[Zombo]

Russia in our games can never be pushed back out of Poland in 1915 as historically
but sometimes later the CP manages a limited breakthrough

none of us has ever gone the whole way to 1918 though, but we feel it must be very difficult to reach the historical highwater mark

the shift of focus against Galicia in the Russian initial set up is very welcome, but we feel Russia remains too strong after that - too many regular infantries. I don't know how this can be fixed, maybe no PPs for a couple of turns instead of just starting with zero. Or Hindenburg at the historical time...

[Zombo]

tempted to give it a go

by all means, do try it

I've never even really enjoyed vanilla, it was below my acceptable standards. This mod really saves the game, and you'll do honour to the excellent work Robotron has poured into this