Why Such Bad Japanese in Soviet Corps?

[Tankerace]

First off let me say I LOVE the fact that the Japanese are even included at all! Especially considering I'm currently building 28mm Bolt Action armies depicting Nomohan and Manchuria, it's an even greater blessing.

But.... the Japanese OOB seems way, way off. Type 95 Ha Gos, I get. But that many? Where are the Type 97 Chi Has, or Type 97 Shinhoto Chi Has? I'm currently playing Manchuria PBEM as the Japanese, and although no Japanese tank will stand against Soviet armor, the lack of any medium tanks (which WERE in Manchuria, much like the Type 89 I-Go which is missing from Khalkn Gol) means the Japanese have little to no chance (yes, I know historically they didn't, but they had a bit more of one). Similarly, Nakajima Ki-21s in 1945? Really? By then they would have been withdrawn for Kamikaze units, where are the Zeroes, Georges, or myriad of other plane types.

I'm not trying to be ungrateful, again, fighting these two battles made my day -- BUT is there any chance a little more work might be put in on the Japanese side to make them a bit more challenging for the Soviet player?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Type 89 I-Go

Chi-Ro?

- BNC

[McGuba]

I guess its all up to budgetery constraints and/or creative decisions. They wanted to include the Japanese/Finnish scenarios, both for flavour and as a selling point, but only had limited resources to do so. Obviously there is a price tag for adding each new "3d" unit into the game (they have to make it in 3d anyway, even if only two 2d models will be displayed - the normal and the big one in the unit info screen) and they decided to concentrate on the new Soviet units instead. And indeed, there are quite a lot of nice new Soviet unit models in the game, but unfortunately in reality many of them were only prototypes (e.g. AT-1, SP-T-18, SU-6, SU-11) or subject to some small scale production (e.g. YAG-10, ZIS-30). Instead of these, I would also have preferred to see more mass produced types and correct icons, for example the Finnish 76 K/02 light artillery has the same (recoloured) unit icon as the Soviet 76.2mm M1942 (ZIS-3), which did not even exist in 1939, at the time of the Winter War scenario. When in fact it was the Russian 76mm M1902 Putilov gun captured after WW1 which had a very different appearance.

The problem is, as I see, it is supposed to be a Soviet campaign and thus they wanted to add more colour to the Soviet inventory, but since the Red Army had a rather limted set of unit types which were produced in enormous quantities, and which had already been covered in the previous versions of the game, they decided to add all those prototype only units, even at the expense of historical accuracy.

[Rayrard]

I just played the Manchuria at the end of the campaign mode and was surprised how challenging it ended up being. Not that the units are that powerful or inflict damage because they cannot attack my units successfully, but they cannot be attacked directly without heavy bombardment beforehand.

They are also dug in deep and are 14 strength! I did not expect such powerful Japanese units. I expected a walkthrough like the Nomohon scenario.
The deployment is only 16 units plus 3 SE units so it is a challenge to get enough ground units represented to take all the objectives. I had 2 inf, 7 tanks, 3 rocket artillery, 2 Su-122, 2 SU-152/122 switched to artillery, 3 fighters and 1 bomber.
The Japanese swarm of 15 strength bombers and fighters was a shock as I deployed only 3 fighters and a bomber. The bombers hit my rocket launchers and tanks pretty hard. I don't know why the Japanese have such numbers of aircraft here and not smaller understrength units of modern equipment. Are there that many obsolete Ki-27's in the JAF by this stage?
You have to take the airfield on the peninsula and it is a scramble to get some units over after the main breakthrough to take that airfield. The fighters at least strafe the field until the entrenchment is 0 so a IS-1 can land and attack the airfield on the last turns. You have to get in ships to take that.

I won the battle on the last turn with all Japanese forces destroyed but all units took damage. Artillery was all under 10 at some points and the Yak fighters were knocked down to 9 (mostly through ignoring interceptors to attack the bombers). Fw-190 dominated.

[RVallant]

I just played the Manchuria at the end of the campaign mode and was surprised how challenging it ended up being. Not that the units are that powerful or inflict damage because they cannot attack my units successfully, but they cannot be attacked directly without heavy bombardment beforehand.

They are also dug in deep and are 14 strength! I did not expect such powerful Japanese units. I expected a walkthrough like the Nomohon scenario.
The deployment is only 16 units plus 3 SE units so it is a challenge to get enough ground units represented to take all the objectives. I had 2 inf, 7 tanks, 3 rocket artillery, 2 Su-122, 2 SU-152/122 switched to artillery, 3 fighters and 1 bomber.
The Japanese swarm of 15 strength bombers and fighters was a shock as I deployed only 3 fighters and a bomber. The bombers hit my rocket launchers and tanks pretty hard. I don't know why the Japanese have such numbers of aircraft here and not smaller understrength units of modern equipment. Are there that many obsolete Ki-27's in the JAF by this stage?
You have to take the airfield on the peninsula and it is a scramble to get some units over after the main breakthrough to take that airfield. The fighters at least strafe the field until the entrenchment is 0 so a IS-1 can land and attack the airfield on the last turns. You have to get in ships to take that.

I won the battle on the last turn with all Japanese forces destroyed but all units took damage. Artillery was all under 10 at some points and the Yak fighters were knocked down to 9 (mostly through ignoring interceptors to attack the bombers). Fw-190 dominated.

Exactly, it isn't a walkover that the briefing even suggests.

That is one of three scenarios in the Soviet Campaign where the briefing is completely misleading imo.

[edahl1980]

The Manchuria'45 seems half-finished and rushed.
Deadline just hit and there was no more time.

Question is. How much longer would it have taken them to add Ki-43, perhaps Ki-84, and some upgraded artillery, infantry and tanks?

All in all im satisfied with Soviet corps and certainly think it lives up to expectations.
Now i am waiting for pacific corps. But i expect the japs to have more stuff than they did in Manchuria'45.

[KarlXII]

I am playing the Manchuria scenario right now in my Soviet campaign and it seems to be if not the most difficult of them all so at least one of the three most. The last few scenarios I have had my prestige drained extremely much. Berlin and Seelowe took a heavy tool on my prestige pool. With only 16 units in this game where you need a lot of artillery but also faces overwhelming japanese air superiority I don´t know if the time is enough for me to secure all victory hexes. It is obvious this scenario is not based on historical facts since the japanese are so strong and have 3 xp stars on them, or do I have the facts wrong ?

[captainjack]

I agree Manchuria's tough and I haven't beaten it yet.
The first time it was just a lot tougher than I had expected, the second time I didn't focus on the objectives properly and last time I realised just too late in the final round that if I'd changed my attack order I could have taken the last objective rather than sitting next to it with no units left to move. Next time, eh?

[Razz1]

I have a couple extra units for Japan in the TRL Mod.

I will eventually add more.

20 mm Type 98 Anti Aircraft

37mm Type 94 Anti tank

[KarlXII]

I just managed to win Manchuria on my first try and in the last turn. Hard as hell. All my five star artillery units, tanks and infantry had to get regular replacements all the time since I only had around 3.000 points of prestige when the scenario started. Fortunately this was the last scenario so it didn´t matter in which shape my core units were in at the end.

I used one tank and one artillery and two aircrafts to take on the eastern most victory location but only after half the time remained.

If I would have replayed it I would prioritzed motorized and heavily protected towed guns as artillery instead of regular artillery as I had to protect better against air attacks. I would also use less tanks, more infantry and at least two aircraft guns and two fighters.

[Izgar]

I agree that the script against the Japanese in Manchuria made badly where the fighters Mitsubishi A6M and Ki-43 and the tanks Type 97 “Chi-ha” \ “Shinhoto Chi-ha” ? where the Japanese kamikaze units ? nothing

[7TPTank]

First off let me say I LOVE the fact that the Japanese are even included at all! Especially considering I'm currently building 28mm Bolt Action armies depicting Nomohan and Manchuria, it's an even greater blessing.

But.... the Japanese OOB seems way, way off. Type 95 Ha Gos, I get. But that many? Where are the Type 97 Chi Has, or Type 97 Shinhoto Chi Has? I'm currently playing Manchuria PBEM as the Japanese, and although no Japanese tank will stand against Soviet armor, the lack of any medium tanks (which WERE in Manchuria, much like the Type 89 I-Go which is missing from Khalkn Gol) means the Japanese have little to no chance (yes, I know historically they didn't, but they had a bit more of one). Similarly, Nakajima Ki-21s in 1945? Really? By then they would have been withdrawn for Kamikaze units, where are the Zeroes, Georges, or myriad of other plane types.

I'm not trying to be ungrateful, again, fighting these two battles made my day -- BUT is there any chance a little more work might be put in on the Japanese side to make them a bit more challenging for the Soviet player?

If you want to play as the Japanese against the smartest AI (lv2), you can not only capture all Soviet cities but also destroy all Soviet units by the following rules I developed based on my own experience.

1. Capture Choibalsan, Chita and airfield (8,3) with 16th Japanese Inf because the Soviets have no units there and they will not be able to purchase units from those cities. By doing so, they will not be able to refuel their aircrafts at the airfield.

2. Attack the landing craft with the artillery and the fighter that are on the island. Then use 13th Japanese Inf to attack the landing craft. Thus, the landing craft will be suppressed by the artillery first and then be hurt worse by the fighter and the Infantry.

3. Use the bombers wisely and be sure to send a fighter to protect it. Sometimes they can make great damage. But NEVER attack the Soviet fighters unless they are running out of bullets, or your fighters will be hurt much worse than the enemy’s.

4.Don’t be afraid that your units will be hurt much worse than the enemy’s. Make enemy’s units run out of bullets, then you can attack them effortlessly.

5. Attack the Soviet artillery near Vladivostok when you have a chance, or it will be even harder for you to attack the Soviet tanks.