Raising new army in the campaign question?

[jack54]

Hi Again,

I'm playing the 'Sengoku Jidai Campaign' (I'm Oda vs AI Takeda). I wanted to strengthen an existing army with new units so I tried raising a new army and then merging them, the problem is, when I raise a new Army an Army appears with many preset units which cannot be deleted. Since I'm low on manpower and money the preset units are eating up my resources. I really would like to reorganize the new army with units I need but my idea is not working. Is there any other way to add units to an existing army?

Thanks!

[melm]

Hi Again,

I'm playing the 'Sengoku Jidai Campaign' (I'm Oda vs AI Takeda). I wanted to strengthen an existing army with new units so I tried raising a new army and then merging them, the problem is, when I raise a new Army an Army appears with many preset units which cannot be deleted. Since I'm low on manpower and money the preset units are eating up my resources. I really would like to reorganize the new army with units I need but my idea is not working. Is there any other way to add units to an existing army?

Thanks!

I don't think you can get rid of some default units.

[rbodleyscott]

The game does not allow you to raise even small forces without core units. During development it did, but it became apparent that this could be abused to raise armies consisting entirely of rare units by repeatedly raising one unit at a time.

This is the sort of thing that subtly spoils a game. Historical generals did not have the luxury of picking exactly the units they wanted. It was more a question of "send reinforcements, now what is available?".

We were trying to make a game that did not require players to tie one hand behind their own backs to give a realistic game.

[GShock112]

But this means your frontline army which is badly damaged and can't take reinforcements piecemeal is going to face the broken enemy army which is merged with a newly created army just at the front line. The enemy army has as BULK the strongest samurai units which are the mandatory ones whereas you have conquered and lost men in battle AND to garrison the newly conquered provinces.
At the same time, the player can still split existing armies without mandatory requirements so this system causes a MAJOR problem while not solving the other one: unrealistic armies.

Rob, I think you're trying to make a game (that is necessarily at its best in the heaviest possible complexity) easier because you think newcomers will have problems in understanding it.
This "ease" you've artificially manufactured is actually bogging down the possibilities a realistic campaign engine would SURELY add to a very solid, very challenging, very entertaining battle system.

Diplomacy with other clans, espionage, events, ambushes and decoys, economy, domestic policies, supply lines, reinforcements, loyalty of the generals... can be built in many different ways. It's a gold mine.

[rbodleyscott]

The mandatory units are not the strongest ones, they are a balanced representation of the key units in the nation's forces. Also, whenever auxiliary units join the army, they are heavily weighted towards lower quality troops, so even if the core field army becomes progressively more veteran, armies will still often contain raw troops when it comes to battle.

We are not trying to make the game easier, we are trying to make it less subject to "gamey" strategy. (A la Civ2 where in the later stages of the game the best strategy was to make armies almost entirely consisting of mobile artillery with one unit of infantry to fight off counterattacks).

As an aside, my strategy when playing the campaigns is to leave one field army unit (usually low quality) in each of my provinces, so as to take maximum advantage of auxiliary (militia/garrison) forces to repel minor enemy invasions. In one victorious Tenka Fubu campaign run, the only battles I fought in the whole campaign were fought by auxiliary armies - all very low quality. Sun Tzu would be proud.

[jack54]

Ok,I understand now. I thought I was doing something wrong. Thanks!

[GShock112]

The mandatory units are not the strongest ones, they are a balanced representation of the key units in the nation's forces. Also, whenever auxiliary units join the army, they are heavily weighted towards lower quality troops, so even if the core field army becomes progressively more veteran, armies will still often contain raw troops when it comes to battle.

Oh I didn't mean saying you're trying to make it easier for newcomers, what I really meant saying is that your fears of making it too complex for newcomers, according to me, are unjustified.

As far as I can tell, we've spoken of 630 as being the low limit to raise a new army. With this low limit, If I am not mistaken then, you can't buy anything else (I think it's a bit lower).
At every year in the Tenka Fubu I did recruit a new army and I recruited one or two extra cheap units. These 2 units cost nothing compared to the other 6. It's simply not possible that the latter are not the strongest ones (heck a yumi samurai unit is a powerful unit in melee against most ashigaru units which should be the bulk of the army and instead we can barely buy any at all).

At any rate, I find the game pretty balanced. We know touching one thing means rebalancing 10 more and I think all efforts are better spent on deepening the campaign experience.

Meanwhile, Oda in the Tenka Fubu Daimyo level is a lot harder to beat (a LOT) than is Takeda (who said the armies are all the same???). I've had instances of 2 HTH engaging in front and 1 engaging from the flank being DEFEATED by a single unit. Some ashigaru units from the Takeda can barely beat in hand to hand the Oda Teppo.

It's strange because with the Oda I found the Takeda overpowering in numbers and lower quality while playing the Takeda I find the Oda stronger both in numbers AND in quality.