Verdict on the Series

Byzantine Productions Pike and Shot is a deep strategy game set during the bloody conflict of the Thirty Years War.

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Gnaeus
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Corporal - 5 cm Pak 38
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:20 pm

Re: Verdict on the Series

Post by Gnaeus »

Might have something to do with tone.

The designer seems like a pretty knowledgeable guy who has engaged in some interesting discussions about the historical bases for his design choices, given the practical constraints of coding. I don't think we should discourage him in that practice. If the rhetoric were turned down a notch this could still turn into an educational thread.
Sedo
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Lance Corporal - SdKfz 222
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:31 pm

Re: Verdict on the Series

Post by Sedo »

I don't think there is a lack of research evident in the scenarios, maybe just the limitations of needing a manageable number of unit types, and so ignoring some finer distinctions. in my opinion it could be resolved by modding in "average" and "superior" morale variants of the Imperial Cuirassiers, much like there is a Veteran variant for several infantry types.

There's a lot of 'received wisdom' around Gustavus especially, so it's helpful to evaluate supposed Swedish cavalry superiority on a case-by-case basis.

At Breitenfeld, the best cuirassier units (Tilly's veteran Bavarian units) were on the right, where they defeated the Saxon cavalry without great difficulty, then after the reserves were committed, went on to attack Horn's fresh Swedish cavalry and participate aggressively in the very fierce infantry fighting on that wing. The current Superior status seems right for these guys.

The cavalry on the left under Pappenheim were directly in Imperial (rather than Catholic League) employ, and probably weren't as experienced as Tilly's veterans (the scenario depicts this for the infantry but not the cav). It's true they lost to the Swedes on the Imperial left - but it was clearly a hard-fought engagement, in which the Imperials exhausted themselves attacking before the Swedish counterattack. And high casualties among the commanded muskets is historical. Someone had to lose, and I don't think the results shows a clear superiority of Swedish cavalry doctrine.

The Swedes did beat the Imperial left again at Lutzen, but: 1. Pappenheim gave the Swedes enough of a fight to accomplish his main objective, i.e. prevent them from outflanking the Imperial position and 2. the Imperial cavalry involved were mostly arquebusiers - it was the arquebusiers whose equipment Wallenstein decided to upgrade after the battle (and whose officers were executed for cowardice). I haven't played the scenario so I'm not sure how Pappenheim's troops are depicted, but Swedish horse should beat arquebusiers pretty easily in game.
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