Rallying during combat??? Wth!

[Biffa]

Is this a bug? I know Japanese troops have a high level of discipline but... bonkers.

[Stephen1024]

Yes units rally because they lose their spacing from lots things, try getting 10 people stay in formation for while doing things.

I know from experience, trying get group soldiers march on parade ground can be challenging for them keep their place. In combat from those periods if charged by cav your going get few dead that need pushing out the way and soldiers taking up their places, hole in square is a killer. Moving across ground, ground types change, got watch your spacing, so yeah rally will happen lot.

[rbodleyscott]

Is this a bug? I know Japanese troops have a high level of discipline but... bonkers.

They are not rallying from routed while in combat, they are rallying from Disrupted or Fragmented. These states represent morale more than physical order, so when a unit rallies it is more about recovering morale than recovering order. There are plenty of historical examples of troops wavering then stabilising again when in close combat.

[Biffa]

30 years of 17c re-enacting (before health and safety and with muskets/edged weapons) I've never seen it. I've been in a well trained group and we were hit five times by three different blocks (there was a lot of rl injuries) at the end of it I couldn't have even told you what unit I was in let alone form up with them into any sort of order, it was pretty frightening and you feel absolutely isolated (due to rank penetration), I felt like running and this wasn't to the death.

The only scenario where morale/formation (let's say stability) could improve under these conditions would be if the unit was trapped, these are rare and don't occur ten times a battle! I've never included it in any of my rules or seen it in the rulesets I've ever bought.

Sorry I just don't buy it, but it's a minor annoyance compared to some of the other oddities that occur during battles, like block facings, formations in forest lines etc.

[GShock112]

I'm having troubles understanding how useful the Honjin can be since he can't move and his radius is basically fixed in place.
That really helps the defender but the attacker has no use for it... the AI doesn't seem to protect it at all but I haven't got the skill to go and kill him, yet. I did it once in the Tutorial and I didn't see a consistent change in the enemy morale (something to check).

I presume it does work when an ally general gets killed in battle but I REALLY hope that the duel skills can be somewhat randomized. On one part because you could take the other side and see it... so hiding it would be totally useless for an expert player who's played them all (he would win all duels against you because he knows your duel skills and you don't know his), on the other part because I have the feeling that guy who always loses a duel is always placed against the same enemy ally general... again I am not doing a real deployment, just starting the battle but some other guy will easily mix things and make the masking of the duel values useless. Since it's a very good idea to mask it, it would be better to make it somehow randomized (option: low random change, historical, totally random).

As of the rallying during combat, yea it happens from F to D and then to steady but it only happens to the AI. Out of the hundreds of units of mine I've seen running, I must have had 2 rallied maybe 3 while the AI rallies quite a lot and this makes me a bit suspicious. This last battle I just got out of... an enemy archer unit rallied from fragmented to disordered after taking 50 casualties during that round (one from teppo, another one from archer unit). That is crazy but it does happen... on the other hand my units almost never improve their morale and this as I said makes me suspicious.

The game is extremely complex and I understand I've got a long way to go before I learn how to use troops properly... perhaps because I can't easily recognize them yet (during the melee phases I have no idea who is who, who is routing and who is pursuing, etc. etc.)

[rbodleyscott]

As of the rallying during combat, yea it happens from F to D and then to steady but it only happens to the AI.

Player and AI units have exactly same chance of rallying in close combat. Neither side has a chance of rallying if they dropped cohesion in the previous turn, so they do need something of a respite in order to have a chance of doing so. If your units are not getting that respite, that would be why you are not seeing any of them rallying. Or it could just be chance in a relatively small sample.

Throughout the game, player and AI units play to exactly the same rules. The AI gets cut no slack in the mechanisms.

The only advantage it gets is more points worth of troops if you play on any of the 4 higher difficulty levels. On the first two difficulty levels the player actually gets more points worth of troops than the AI (at least in skirmishes and campaign setup).

[GShock112]

I've just won 2 battles in a row with the 1st level of difficulty.
Yesterday I tried the Daimyo but it's impossible... earlier today I gradually moved it down. The first level is too easy and with the second I'm in big trouble. It's very good to know the AI doesn't cheat, so ultimately it's the troop quality that changes with the difficulty. At this point that means I basically couldn't rally those weaker and battered troops... surely then the AI enemy didn't need to rally much since it was constantly beating me.

Excellent, it's exactly what I wanted to hear.

[rbodleyscott]

At this point that means I basically couldn't rally those weaker and battered troops... surely then the AI enemy didn't need to rally much since it was constantly beating me.

Which of course is why their units had a chance to rally and yours didn't.

[kongxinga]

Don't the troops have better/more frequent rally chances when led by a general or C in C? That may be causing the difference in rally frequencies.

[rbodleyscott]

Don't the troops have better/more frequent rally chances when led by a general or C in C? That may be causing the difference in rally frequencies.

That is true. It only affects the units that actually have a general with them.

[GShock112]

So units can't rally without a general with them? If I am not mistaken they do rally without the general but I suppose the general helps them rally.
I've seen units DISPERSED while actually still routing (and a clear path to the map edge). What decides when a unit is dispersed and when it continues routing?

Yesterday I also saw an AI firearm unit RETREAT. I have no idea how it does that and why, can anyone explain pls?

[rbodleyscott]

So units can't rally without a general with them?

They can, but they only have a 40% chance per turn of taking a Cohesion Test to see if they can rally (20% if routing), whereas those with a general have 100% chance of testing each turn. (In each case only if they are eligible to test - i.e. they did not drop cohesion last turn, and if routed they are not being pursued and did not suffer significant shooting casualties). In addition, a unit in close combat will have a +1 on the Cohesion Test if it has a general with it - as they are inspired by him fighting in the front rank.

I've seen units DISPERSED while actually still routing (and a clear path to the map edge). What decides when a unit is dispersed and when it continues routing?

If they have routed 5 consecutive times they disperse. This represents the routers being scattered beyond hope of recall.

They also disperse if they have no route of escape.

Yesterday I also saw an AI firearm unit RETREAT. I have no idea how it does that and why, can anyone explain pls?

AI Light troops (Light Foot, Light Horse, Mounted Infantry) will retreat if they are fragmented or close to autobreaking. The player can do the same with his units if he chooses - light troops do not have to take a morale check when they retreat.

[GShock112]

Perfect explanation, thanks.