Morning Sun: Wuhan help

[TDefender]

Hi! I'm experiencing very big problems with this mission and I noticed something weird watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9gopb7Lamo

That guys starts the mission with 603 cp while I receive just 65... it's a bug or whatelse?
Thks for any help.

[Ichthyic]

How much cash did you leave the last map with? If it was very low, and you took the full time to complete it, you might not have much to carry over, and I think a lot of your cash in this campaign comes from carry over. It sounds like you basically had zero reserves left after the previous map? otherwise, yeah, that's a bug, as while it doesn't add much for this map, you should at least have *some* carryover from the last map.

let me check what I started that map with, hang on.

Yeah, it looks like you get VERY little additional cash for that map; it mostly relies on your reserves from the previous map, and how much you carry over depends on how fast you finished it. I finished map 6 in 21 turns, so I had a full 2 weeks bonus to my reserves.

but, if you have 65 and the guy you are watching has 600, which seems legit for an average campaign up to that point (I had about 850, but I get the bonus of reloads), the thing to do is simply give yourself enough cash to make it an average run.

press shift+c to open the console.

click in the text box that pops up on the line for entering text

type in:

#warbonds

and hit enter

that will give you 500, which makes it about where you should be at that stage.

so, not really cheating; you must have just not played that efficiently or moved fast enough in previous maps to carry over a decent reserve, or you did indeed have a bug if you did have decent reserves. And yes, you will need it for this map.

[Ichthyic]

another thought... did you maybe just click on the Imperial Japan resource by by accident, so that is all that is showing?

if so, click on the resource bar again and make sure it says: "show all resources"

[TDefender]

First of all thanks a lot!

Ok it's not about not displaying the resource pannel correctly: 65 cp it's all that I get
When I won the previous scenario (just a couple of turns to go) I received about 200 cp which I spent immediately to restore most of my unit's wealth and buyed just a couple of infantry units. Obviously, 200 cp + 65 cp at beginning are definitely far away enough to be fitting for the Wuhan scenario...

In the previous 5 missions It took to me most of turns avalable (but always completing most of secondary objectives) but you have to consider that I decided to play this dlc at level 4 (vice-admiral) and it was quite difficolt indeed but not impossible as for the sixth one (Wuhan) so , simply a bug or something wrong about the vice-admiral difficult level?

PS

I obviously tried to switch to level 3 at beginning of the Wuhan mission but the cps given were still 65...

[Ichthyic]

no bug. I played on average (one lower difficulty than you), and it looks like that map only gives about 100 rp to start, so I would indeed expect less than that for higher difficulty levels.

meh, whatever. just use the cheat code and move on.

[bjarmson]

I suggest you use it carefully and only occasionally. Even though it's called a cheat code, some of the scenarios are beyond stingy with RPs. You do want a bit of a challenge and in some of the historical scenarios resources were limited, both US and Japanese. This said, in some scenarios the amount you're given and the amount per turn are ludicrous. The hypothetical US scenario Tokyo is one such case. You start with pittance and only get 80 per turn. It's like the US is in a Guadalcanal situation of limited resources again. I just ignore the initial amounts and give myself as many RPs as I need to upgrade any units that need it. Then I give myself carriers, battleships, planes, armor, whatever I want, because that is what would have happened. After all it's supposedly the climatic battle of WWII, the war in Europe is long over, the US would use the very best equipment it has. Doing it on the cheap, as this scenario is set up is ludicrous. Don't think twice about giving yourself as many RPs as you need, that's exactly what the US would have done if this battle had been fought.

[Ichthyic]

oh, the #warbonds code by default gives you 500rp, but you can type any number after it to give yourself less or more.

example:

#warbonds 190

or

#warbonds 5000

[TDefender]

oh, the #warbonds code by default gives you 500rp, but you can type any number after it to give yourself less or more.

example:

#warbonds 190

or

#warbonds 5000

Very good! Thanks again .
I just think the difficult levels above the third/normal are not well balanced. I've never experienced such a problem when I played and finished on "normal" the 2 core game campaings...

[simcc]

Do not reinforce your unit with experience troops if that is what you are doing as it will drain your RP very fast and green vs experience troops do not have much difference except on higher damage unit like Yamato BB etc, on infantry green is as good as experience. If you are using a lot of marine and not cheap infantry then you will suffer in RP.

[Ichthyic]

^^ bad advice.

one experienced mechanized or infantry unit is worth two rookies, any day.

they can fight and fight and fight, and not run out of efficiency, which makes them your best shock troops to spearhead your attacks with.

with aircraft, it's not nearly as important, but for your main troops, it's VERY important.

simcc is flat out wrong.

[simcc]

Maybe I am outdated hahahaha, maybe they have improve that in patch but I haven't been in this game lately but in the olden days it doesn't make much difference. Maybe you can enlighten me on what's the difference so I can use that information when I play it next. It should be sometime before I return to this game maybe during winter war so please share on how does a elite infantry perform compare to a green infantry.

[Mojko]

See this thread for detailed discussion about unit efficiency:

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 64&t=71818

[TDefender]

Ok after finished the map with some extra money (thanks a lot to Ichthyic) I decided to restart my MS campaign at normal level...

The first 5 missions, played meticulously, went fine , once again all secondary objects achieved, I made a good core army with several armored units and about 320 money at the beginning of Wuhan... then again the tragedy, impossible to win!!! after several try and nights of "desperate gaming" I was due to cheat again even if just adding 5 turns more... I definitely think there's something wrong with this mission, never had such problems with the two core game's campaigns and, most of all, it's just the sixth mission of the MS campaigns!!! I think the devs should give a look to the balance of this mission

[mhladnik]

Hmm, actually, this is the one scenario where I got stuck as well; the balancing seems disproportionally off in Wuhan.

[TDefender]

Any words about from devs?

[adherbal]

Could you attach a savegame here or mail it to contact@the-artistocrats.com? Would like to have a go at it myself to judge the difficulty level.

[bebro]

Any words about from devs?

Yes, it is overall quite challenging, since there are many things to consider - partisans, advance to Wuhan without suffering too much losses, and if aiming for a DV still manage to secure secondary objectives. But unless there's something not working correctly I'd say the scn is perfectly winnable (and was so during beta), esp. on normal difficulty.

I did put togther a little graphical help based on the scn's preview map, ppl who don't like spoilers don't click it.

http://i.imgur.com/rswJada.jpg

- the big red arrow (1) is your main advance to Wuhan (roughly - use the road whenever possible), this should get priority and consist of the bulk of your forces, - the smaller red arrows are secondary/weaker attacks
- don't get bogged down at the objective at (3) - take out the mobile force in front, then isolate it with few units and move on with your main force to Wuhan
- deal with (3) slowly, if needed bring in more troops from the north once the partisans are finnished off there (2)
- advance towards Wuhan to trigger the arrival of aux reinforcements at (4) use them in coordination with your spearheads

Still, if you feel something's wrong pls provide a savegame indeed.

[TDefender]

Savegame sent. I have to insist sorry, I won the next mission, Nanchang, after a couple of try while Wuhan remained impossible to achieve without cheating...
Potentially I could imagine such a rough challenge for on of the last missions, if not for the last one, but definitely not for the sixth one. It is very frustrating

[best75]

I was only playing on the 3rd difficulty but this level was quite a challenge and very hard. Real drain on my resource points,

[GiveWarAchance]

Why not just replay the mission again so with some practice you can win next time. I had no trouble winning this battle and I'm a very below average player for this game. Maybe I had a different core set but I always used the usual tanks, cavalry, troops, fighters, arty and bombers in a balanced battlegroup. I kept half of my tanks as light and half as medium. And bombers are very good for the Japanese. I think cavalry are good cause of big movement and low cost to restock when they get worn down in the fighting and I think most players will overlook using cavalry.
You definitely don't need cheats for the Morning Sun campaign cause the hapless Chinese get pushed around quite easily by the superior Japanese troops which is nicely historical.