London Blitz v238

Moderators: The Artistocrats, Order of Battle Moderators

earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Skyrider,

Thanks for your help. I do not have an answer, except to say that once you get the red "thinking" death, you need to do a complete system re-boot, before you play again. If you have not... it will keep having weird problems.

I need the game dates (turn #) of the red T death, in order to track the AI side. If you have not given up? :?: Or perhaps the info is in the screenshots?

Thanks,
Earle
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Did not know of the complete system reboot...thanks.. wonder how many planes are in the air(one side or another) in Blitz at a time..seems like more than 15.. :D
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Just for fun I started Blitz to do a plane count. By turn 9 I had 38 German aircraft on the board. Game ran with out a hitch no delay between turns..sooo hmmmmm. I'll have to leave that for greater minds than mine....seems to me its not the AI but maybe something else! :?: :?:
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

By turn 11 I have about 50 german aircraft on the board! Red death!!! I just don't have any idea why this number cannot be reach in the Ruhr but in Blitz before the red death.
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Skyrider,

In your C:/Slitherine/OoBPacific/ folder

There should (at the top) be a selection of reports, dated. (2016-09-05-number)

These are crash reports, if you have them. Some of it is readable:)

Let me know if you have them, they are helpful, in some ways.

Thanks,
Earle

PS - I am reworking the AI for v1.1 Mod-Essen'43.
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Cant locate any crash reports. Sorry! Wish I knew enough to help !
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Skyrider,

Not a problem. It will be a few weeks or longer before I get the new AI done. I live in a small fishing town in Alaska and the weather has improved, the Salmon are starting, the days are longer.

I do most of this kind of stuff during the short days of Winter.

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it,
Earle
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Played an entire game today with all the p51s ( 0 planes remained to be bought) :D I could buy plus the b25. Set graphics at 2d and the game played without a hitch... :D
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Skyrider,

What "makes" this game is the 3D modeling. Otherwise I'd still be playing the HPS Civil War and modern Series. I think their tactical AI is better, but they are 2D.

My problem, really, is the AI will let you have about (8) planes "full bore", not enough to combat (30) bombers. The game does not have the right feel (for me) with only (10) bombers, a much smaller scenario type.

Anyway, I will give it one more try, to see if I can work it out.

Thanks for all your help,
Earle
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Ever consider a Flying Tiger scenario? :D
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Skyrider,

Why don't you give it a try?

Earle
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Before I answer that , let me ask you something. How old are ya?
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

64
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

Got you by 8 years...72 here.. :D or maybe you got me by 8 years hmmmmm.
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Are you saying you are too old to do a scenario?

I will say this; doing a scenario can really take the fun out of the game. I did London Blitz because I felt there should be the "other side" of the air war and I wanted more of the European air war. I wondered why they did it as a stand-alone, (I guess maybe I know now :D )

Essen'43 is what I really wanted to do. Alas... (I will still give it, one more try, before I surrender :D )

I am spending most of my time, refitting and preparing my sailboat for the summer now. Summer is short up here and we need to take advantage of the season, while it is here.

Earle
bruce1944
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Sergeant Major - Armoured Train
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:06 am
Location: North East Ohio

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by bruce1944 »

I will give it a try. But patience is not my best quality!!!
Ichthyic
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by Ichthyic »

where is the download link for this?

nvmd, found it.
Ichthyic
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by Ichthyic »

wait... I can buy the giant rail artillery gun, but cannot place it. This was part of this battle, was it not? Was certainly something I had to take out when playing on the British side.

need to add the rail line and allow placement of this gun. How hard would it be to edit that into the scenario?

answer:

not hard at all, in fact. I added some railway lines and roads (paved and dirt) to the map on the German side, and plonked the rail cannon in the middle of the map so you can move it slowly along the rail lines to the coast if you want to use it. the roads and bridges make it easier to move around your flak cannons; of which I removed half of them to actually make it worthwhile moving them around!
looks and plays much nicer.
Ichthyic
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Senior Corporal - Destroyer
Posts: 105
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 10:55 pm

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by Ichthyic »

huh. was doing well up through turn 7, then the AI froze up on its turn.

I guess the latest AI patch does not apply to the Battle of Britain mod.

pretty sure this hang has something to do with the AI trying to figure out what to do with the British strategic bombers that get sent over in turn 4. On turn 5, I had severely damaged 3 of them, and left the 4th alone. On turn 6, the AI tried to send back the 3 bombers that were damaged to the nearest airfield, but totally ignored doing anything with the undamaged one.

Sometimes I am getting no rp or morale for sinking enemy shipping. I always get rp for truck and radar destruction, but sometimes get no morale boost. especially if I have gotten a morale boost from something else the same turn.

btw, when the AI goes into "The Thinker", it has nothing to do with how powerful your machine is. It is taking ZERO cpu cycles while it is stuck like that, which means it is a scripting error, not an issue with the game engine vs computing power, etc.

so, it means it is trying to do something with a unit that is offscreen, or that it thinks it can do something with that it simply can't, like trying to move something that is trapped.

It's too bad, as I like how this is done, but it doesn't look like the AI scripting is up to the task of positioning so many units that don't have pre-programmed orders.

maybe check with the devs for feedback, because it's pretty consistent I get hung turns on this map, whereas that has not happened once since the AI patch came out for any other map.

as a kludge, maybe the devs could add a timer for the AI side that can be programmed by the mapmaker. say, you can set it so the AI has 5 minutes to decide what to do, and when 5 minutes are up, that's it. the ai quits attempting to move or attack at that point, and it is again the players turn.

because as it is, the only way to play these maps is to force the AI not to take its turn anyway with the #johnconnor cheat.

anywho, having "played" it till the end as it is, I judge this map (out of 10 for each category):

8/10 graphic design. The key features (cities, airfields, radar stations, etc) were well laid out, and often allowed multiple avenues of approach. What was missing were any kind of roads or railways, like you would expect in both France and Britain at the time, and would have been used to move AA pieces and whatnot. These features are not hard to add, and do add a quite a bit to a map IMO, not just from a visual standpoint, but a tactical one as well. Graphics were painstakingly added for briefings and events, and were appropriate and well done.

9/10 concept. I really like the scripting for this scenario, as both sides are provided with units by "headquaters" and you are not allowed to purchase and place your own, which actually is pretty realistic for the time and place. I think maybe the pacing is a tad quick, but other than that, I like it. Also, not the author's fault, but having so many unscripted units running around requires a huge attention to possible AI hangups; more than frankly is warranted. It's up to the devs to address this issue really, but the only quibble is maybe having to take this issue into account when designing scenarios and keep the overall numbers down a bit?

8/10 gameplay. I had a lot of fun planning the back and forth timing of aerial fighter battles and setting up red herrings to fool the AI into sending its forces into the wrong place. Also bombing London flat was more satisfying than perhaps it should have been :) On the downside, I think the map is a bit small for how many units you end up fielding, and things get a bit cramped and there is a bit of micromanaging needed to move units around each other, which normally wouldn't be a problem for an aerial battle, but because this is really 2d space, it becomes a bit of a headache. Also, AI should fully control the AA ground units (it only has them in defense mode, it never attacks with them on the British side), and there should be about half the total number on the German side than there currently is.

Overall, I think this is a scenario that had a lot of work put into it, and is well worth checking out. There will be a LOT of luck involved, not the least of which will involve whether you end up with a hung AI or not, which likely depends on where units end up being concentrated on the battlefield.

I look forward to checking out the authors other maps!
earlecook
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Senior Corporal - Ju 87G
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:46 am
Location: Cordova, Alaska
Contact:

Re: London Blitz v238

Post by earlecook »

Ichthyic,

Thank you for your commentary,

The map size (was reduced), various map items removed (gun/rails) and others. I could go on. I was crashing my computer (game crash) on a frequent basis, I did get crash reports from the game, seeming to be removing a lot of objects, memory (graphic) problems etc. (I could understand only a small portion of the crash reports).

By reducing the map (I recreated the BoB map originally) and by removing half the pretty stuff, (which I put hours and hours into), I was able to get the game more stable and I could play it through. Obviously others cannot.

You seem to know more about this than I do, and I value your advice (that was given), I would like to ask how you "know" or measure the "Red Thinking" error related to (0) CPU cycles? Also "scripting error"? Could you explain that better? Is it something the author controls or is it a game problem?

"Pre-programmed orders", could you define that better; Defend Hex? Search & Destroy? Usually assigned to the AI planes. These are not pre-programmed orders? Or do you mean move from A to B?

I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this. My goal is to make it the best it can be (and be able to play it through) and if you can help with that, as you have done, it would be appreciated.

I realize with less units, it would work better. But, I would not get the same feel of the game, with five bombers and five fighters. My first test scenario I did, to learn the system, has those amounts, it works great, but is seriously lacking in flavor and other things...


Again any technical advice is welcome!
Thanks,
Earle
Post Reply

Return to “Order of Battle : World War II - Scenario Design”