Persuers contacting fresh enemy

[LordNytram]

In a club game a situation arose during a pursuit that I'm not sure we got right. So what should we have done?

Initial position when my troops routed:
OPPP
OPPP
ORRRAA
ORRRAA
OOOEEE
OOOEEE
Where "O" is just a blank space in the diagram. "P" are the Pursuers,"R" the routers, and "E" are fresh enemy. Of the 3 files of fresh enemy "E" only the left had base was exposed as it was fighting another unit to its front as an overlap shown as "A".

Now after the initial rout and second JAP phase rout the situation was:

OPPP
OPPPAA
RRROAA
RRREEE
OOOEEE

So the routers slipped a base to the left to avoid their friends and stopped with their back bases just in advance of their friends "E" in the front line.
The pursuers rolled to move further than they needed and certainly hit the routers. Indeed they rolled enough to run into the new Enemy base had my routers not got in the way. The ruling on the evening was they the pursuers in the free file would keep going past the rest of their units bases and hit fresh enemy as there was room to do so. My opponent wasn't claiming this as a step forward as you can only do this when you contact fresh enemy. He was simply saying that he had the movement to hit them and he could keep unit continuity so we ended up fighting the impact in the following turn.

I think his unit should have stopped when it hit my routers all along its front and so there would have been no impact to fight between the new enemy and the pursuers in the following turn.

I guess it mattered as my "E" unit wouldn't have fought and lost the impact and would have increased my chances of killing the "A" unit during the subsequent melee phase.

Thoughts please?

Regards
Martyn

[AlanCutner]

As far as I can see the pursuers can contact unit E only via a step forward (ignoring the fact it will hit anyway in the next pursuit move). Step forwards occur for charges only, not pursuits. So I think you're right and the pursuers should have stopped on contact with routers.

[grahambriggs]

The pursuers will continue to fight the routers and will not step forward into the fresh enemy. The rule is not well worded: pursuers will (unless they don't want to and pass a CMT) contact fresh enemy in their path. However, pursuers follow the routers - so the path stops at the routers.

[petedalby]

Morning gentlemen - I was Martyn's opponent. I have read and re-read the rules on pursuits - both initial pursuits and pursuits in the JAP - together with the original FAQs, Errata and umpire clarifications and I still think I made the right call.

If the routers move 2MU and the pursuers move 2MU - I agree there is no step forward into fresh enemy.

The diagram on Page 107 shows a pursuit hitting fresh enemy and then stepping forward into the routers - so that situation is clear.

In our situation, the routers were moving 2MU. The pursuers were moving 4MU. The fresh enemy were at 2+MU. Nowhere in the pursuit rules does it say that you halt on the line of the routers. What it does say on page 116 is that "Pursuers normally contact any fresh enemy in their path."

It seems strange to me that this body of pursuers would halt before hitting the fresh enemy. If the routers had interpenetrated their friends the pursuers would have hit the them. If the routers had passed beyond their friends, the pursuers would have hit them.

I have no problem being wrong in this case but please help me understand why and where it is in the rules.

[dave_r]

How would you make contact with the fresh enemy? You can only do this by stepping forwards - and as discussed, you don't step forward unless you've contacted fresh enemy. Therefore you'd have to wait until the next pursuit to hit them.

[petedalby]

How would you make contact with the fresh enemy?

"Pursuers normally contact any fresh enemy in their path."

I am 100% clear it is not a step forward - but the enemy are within the pursuers range and path.

[philqw78]

But their path doesn't reach the new enemy

[petedalby]

Where does it say that?

[philqw78]

Your path 'follows' the enemy

Otherwise all sorts of shit can happen.

Say I am pursuing HF with Cav. I am two bases wide. So I can move any base front not in contact with the routers as far forwards as possible, retaining BG continuity if you wish. I do this until the enemy are removed then reform my BG on the furthest forward base. Nothing wrong with that then, could get me three base depths further forwards.

Make sure you put this clarification in your next set

[zoltan]

Initial Pursuit

"Pursuers make a variable movement distance roll and adjust their move accordingly."

The rules probably specify it explicitly somewhere but tabletop practice is that all files of a BG move the same distance required to maintain formation (with some specific exceptions). For example, if the flank file of a BG line hits slowing terrain, all files stop to maintain formation. Those files that are still in the open are not permitted to continue up to their BG's maximum move distance regardless of the fact that their mates have come to a grinding halt at the edge of slowing terrain. The BG is required to respect the formation rules:


Battle Group Formations
"In general, troops must be in a rectangular formation with all bases facing in the same direction, in edge to corner contact with each other......There are fives exceptions to this general case:"

1. Columns
2. Fighting in two directions
3. Compulsory move specified by the rules
4. Stepped forward when expanding in combat
5. Orb

Does Pete's example meet one of these exception criteria? More specifically, were the files who pursued past the line of their mates' first contact with the routers making a compulsory move specified by the rules? If not, surely they were obliged to obey the BG formation rules?

[grahambriggs]

p116, 3rd bullet: "pursuers follow routers". They don't overtake. So their path is to follow the routers

8th bullet: "pursuers normally contact any fresh enemy in their path". So as the routers go round a new target, in we go. But not before.

[LordNytram]

Thank you gentlemen . .there I was robbed! Yes Alan they would hit eventually but not until I had fought another melee. I think my opponents were fragged so they would probably have gone by the time the new impact took place. Key as after all points make prizes! - especially as we were using the ITC scoring system.