Soviet corps - a bit of newbie ranting

[Lagg3]

Hi everyone.
New to this forum (well, it's easy to spot), but playin' PG/PC since 1996 me thinks...
Downloaded brand new Soviet Corps, anticipating to SMASH everything to pulp with mighty KVs, but what did i get? I've got Pz-IIs, attacking my KV-1 from river and killing 1-2 units per attack. I've got wehr inf (not exactly icon of antitank capabilities, especially in its '39/41 variant) attacking healthy/unsupressed KV in broad daylight on clear terrain and dealing it 2-3 damage, while receiving 1-2. I've got two batteries of 203-mm heavy howitzers and 1 battery of 152-mm ML-20 shooting at unentrenched german inf, which was then attacked by another KV. Result of 4 attacks (3 arties, 1 tank)? Infantry lost 1 (in words - ONE) HP and retreated. C'mon, what's that about?
Wehrmacht's grand campaign DLC was/is installed on all my computers since 2013, and last time i played it i finished in Berlin with 50K+ prestige and dozens of unused units. KVs are and had always been formidable opponents. In 1941 i used Stukas and Do-217 to deal with them. NOT panzercampvagens with 20-mm autocannon. Soviet 85 mm AA always decimated my unwary aircrafts, be it Ju-87, Do-217, Me-410 or any fighter. Here concentrated fire of 3 heavy 85 AA guns barely gives me one kill.
Am i missin' somethin'?

[robman]

Experience. At the outset, the Germans have it, and you don't. It takes a few scenarios to field one-star units (depending on difficulty). Just like the Red Army in 1941.

[TSPC37730]

I haven't picked up SC yet, but I expect to soon. So, I'm curious, are the attack & defense values the same for the same units in PC? My guess is that they are, but, I wonder a little.

I agree with the previous post by robman as well. Experience makes a big difference too. If you hit "L" right after combat it will bring up a breakdown of the attack & defense values used & show any experience & initiative effects. You'll also be able to see how any heroes help and other bonuses or penalties like close defense or ambush. Lastly, the die rolls will be at the bottom. Good luck!

[Lagg3]

thanks for the advice, TSPC, whatever it is, but as i've mentioned i know a thing or two about the game. And you don't really need that trial and error process - predicted result, indicated in crosshair when attempting to attack, usually is accurate enough, and if you press Shift + left click instead of just left click, you'll see a result of simulated combat on screen, just like the L button, only without spending turn / incurring casualties.
Axis unit stats look exactly like those in PC, at least in patch 1.14 or somethin', but i do not remember most of the units as i've never used them. Normal human being starts Barbarossa with Pz-IVDs and SFh-15s, not Pz-IIs, Flamethrower panzers and Bisons.
The combat still puzzles me though, notwithstanding the units' experience. I just nearly choked on my tea as enemy field 105 mm howitzer, staying on clear hex, survived barrage of 1 203-mm and two 152 mm arties, repelled attack of an infantry unit (8) and retreated with dignity only after kv-1 showed up, suffering all in all 2 or 3 casualties. In these games arty was effective immediately after being commissioned, suppressing soft units and destroying their entrenchments with zero experience. Not any more.

[TSPC37730]

Wow. I'm really curious now. I may have to pick up a copy of the game soon & try it for myself. What difficulty & AI levels are you playing at?

As an aside, I remember playing as the Russians a few times in the old Allied General. The Finland scenario was rather tricky. Once it got to Barbarossa I remember having extreme difficulty in trying to keep any units alive. Don't recall getting much further along than that & instead turning to other games at the time. I wonder if that's the sort of "flavor" the campaign the scenario designers were trying to create.

[Lagg3]

With all due respect to devs i'd suggest waiting for at least one patch before considering buying it.
I'm starting to sort it out, as more experienced troops behave more like they used to, however other issues arised. For example, i've received SE cavalry unit, but screwed save and restarted map. Unit wasn't offered to me again. I've started a new game, went through 3 initial scenarios again - to no avail. Unit seems to be lost for me. Apart from similar issues, that were known in PC too, weird thing is AI behavior. It scatters most of its troops around the map, and lefts them idle guarding minor towns /airfields in the middle of nowhere. Once player's troops movement triggers something, some units start moving... errr... somewhere, while others remain passive. Difficulty = medium, Colonel i suppose.
Funny thing about Allied general - it was exactly the same to me. And Soviet Corps again gives me the same feeling: very poor infantry, waves after waves of enemy troops, and everything dies before it get a chance to learn anything. If player, for any reason, cannot use rivers as lines of defense, he is dead. Oh, and that cozy constant buzz of luftwaffe, which kills trucks and tanks low on health and seems to be invincible. Soviet fighters are exceptionally bad - during first battle against Germans my fighters, six of them, Yak-1s and MiG-3s, 10 HP each, attacked lonely Bf109F (7 or 8 HP)... and failed to kill it. Mass attack and all didn't help. Had to restart scenario and opt for heavy AD guns instead of fighters. Absolutely unusual for me.

[TSPC37730]

And Soviet Corps again gives me the same feeling: very poor infantry, waves after waves of enemy troops, and everything dies before it get a chance to learn anything. If player, for any reason, cannot use rivers as lines of defense, he is dead.

I don't know. Maybe that's the secret. Keep deploying line after line of conscripts in hopes that, as they serve their functions as little more than speed bumps, they chip off a strength point or two each. I'm sure they don't cost too much. I don't know if that would be enough to earn you a win or move you in that direction because I haven't played it yet. It would be historically accurate though.

Fully agree with the AD guns thoughts. Those would probably be the only thing that might have a chance of surviving multiple scenarios if SC is at all like the old Allied General. Doubt I would even bother to field any kind of air force until '42 or so.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

save 1939 Poland and Finalnd, I think I have managed a DV/Triumph in every scenario up to + including Caucauss.

Basically I use groups of 3-4 T34/KV1 hunting groups occasionally backed up by a 85mm flak or a 203 arty. Massed attack by tanks destroys pretty much everything

- BNC

[Lagg3]

save 1939 Poland and Finalnd, I think I have managed a DV/Triumph in every scenario up to + including Caucauss.

Basically I use groups of 3-4 T34/KV1 hunting groups occasionally backed up by a 85mm flak or a 203 arty. Massed attack by tanks destroys pretty much everything

- BNC

My thanks to you, BTN.
After reading your post i replayed Moscow, and it turned out that i was excessively scared by previous battles. Formations of several tanks in the front and an arty, heavy AD and a Soviet guards unit holding ground some way behind proved to be completely playable. T-34/40s were not a good idea, though, at least at that point and for me.
And then again, thank you for helping me rediscover the way it meant to be played (tm).
I've got too accustomed to Axis campaigns, when player begins with assault missions, and switches to defense later, when sizeable armored forces are already in place. For obvious reasons Soviet campaign is exactly the opposite, and after the bloodbath in Smolensk i tried to hide as far behind as possible, instead of countering advancing enemy with tanks like i used to in Ukraine, Romania and Hungary in Axis campaign.

[captainjack]

You probably are better off with AA rather than fighters in most of Soviet Corpes. 3 seems to be enough, but an extra one or two might save enough prestige to be a good long term investment. Even if the fighters can survive, they rarely do useful damage and have terrible range.

I usually get 4 KV1 and 4 T34 as soon as I can. From then on add on SPart and SPAA to support them, and aim to add another 4 tank brigade when I have enough core slots. Apart from the odd engineer for mine clearing, infantry rarely gets a look in until SMG or 43 Guards are available.

I haven't yet managed DV on the one that leads to Silver Fox or Manchuria, but otherwise haven't done too bad so far.

[Lagg3]

I follow advise i've seen on this forum and use AD guns against fighters, fighters against bombers. AD turned out to be not effective against Stukas.
When AD sufficiently decrease overall number of enemy fighter aircraft, stray fighters can be finished off by planes. Dogfight aside, Soviet fighters perform well enough in clearing skies from bombers. MiG-3s actually have decent range and high enough initiative to perform well in one-o-ones with Bf109e/f. Not sure about the further modernization - i don't remember mass production of planes, created by MiG bureau, during WWII, but if situation with prestige does not deteriorate really significantly, it won't matter. Main goal of having fighters is to allow them to get experience. I still remember i had to restart my very first campaign in Panzer general when faced Torch landing in Africa in 1942, and my three fighters were simply not good enough, both in numbers and in quality, and US AF annihilated me.
Likewise with infantry - i really doubt i'll be able to use tanks successfully in woods or urban combat, which ought to be frequent in future. Silver Fox, for one, does not suppose using any armor at all.

The issue with SE units continues: i've received BT-7 SE after Moscow, then i've re-played the scenario, got DV instead of MV... and no sign of SE unit. If it keeps that way, it may become a problem in future.

[Aloo]

The issue with SE units continues: i've received BT-7 SE after Moscow, then i've re-played the scenario, got DV instead of MV... and no sign of SE unit. If it keeps that way, it may become a problem in future.

Im not sure if anything changed but I think to get a SE unit you need to get a Triumph and if you do and have free SE slots you have 30% (33%?) chance to get one. With extreme bad luck you can finish a campaign without any.

[Lagg3]

Played axis grand campaign for a while, then decided to give SC one more try. And again - it takes 2 KV-1 tanks and two 152-mm arties to take out single wehr inf unit with normal strength and no entrenchment, staying in a clear terrain hex. All units on both sides have 100-200 exp.
I just CANNOT wrap my head around it.

[TSPC37730]

Played axis grand campaign for a while, then decided to give SC one more try. And again - it takes 2 KV-1 tanks and two 152-mm arties to take out single wehr inf unit with normal strength and no entrenchment, staying in a clear terrain hex. All units on both sides have 100-200 exp.
I just CANNOT wrap my head around it.

I picked up SC not too long ago & just started it. I'm about to start the first scenario against the Germans. I'll try to let you know how it goes...

[TSPC37730]

The issue with SE units continues: i've received BT-7 SE after Moscow, then i've re-played the scenario, got DV instead of MV... and no sign of SE unit. If it keeps that way, it may become a problem in future.

Im not sure if anything changed but I think to get a SE unit you need to get a Triumph and if you do and have free SE slots you have 30% (33%?) chance to get one. With extreme bad luck you can finish a campaign without any.

I got my first SC SE unit at Rzhev-Vyazma. It was a KV-2. The 1 extra ammo that the SE units get was helpful. Liked the paint job on the unit as well. I fell just short of getting a DV at Moscow though as my counter attack on the 4th objective wasn't enough to clear the hex.

[Lagg3]

I got my first SC SE unit at Rzhev-Vyazma. It was a KV-2. The 1 extra ammo that the SE units get was helpful. Liked the paint job on the unit as well. I fell just short of getting a DV at Moscow though as my counter attack on the 4th objective wasn't enough to clear the hex.

Uran completed, Saturn in progress. All scenarios were DV save for Finland. Got myself two SE infantry units.
Stalingrad was ridiculous: i hated this map with passion playing as Axis, and i found it is not better from Soviet point of view.
Some Frenchman (was it Fosh?) said: "The worse the infantry, the more artillery support it needs. US infantry needs all arty it can get".
Here the same goes for the Soviet troops. I was preparing to stonewall (quite literally) enemy advance at the outskirts with my numerous KVs, but the devs had found, how should i put it... a creative way to force my tanks out of action, and ultimately i had to rely on infantry, heavily supported by arty. In the end the whole Stalingrad thing turned out into one giant cluster... err... arty party, with up to fifteen artillery pieces on the ground simultaneously, which was hefty 50% of fighting force.
Now advancing towards Tacinskaya. Nazis got themselves long barreled 75-mm guns for both their panzers and Sturmgeschütz's, additional rag-tag Marders are pouring into action too, featuring both modified Russian made F-22 and original PAK-40s. For all intents and purposes i've already lost my superiority in armor, and German Zoo is not even here yet. My infantry and air force are as inferior as they ever were. Don't really now how to proceed.