Am I screwed?

[88mmFlak]

I still have the Pz I's. Is it even worth buying tanks before PZ IV's? Would hate to grab a PZ II or III and have to upgrade it but I forgot when PZ IV first is available

I would say that one or two Pz II are still valuable even 1941. Sure, they can´t inflict much damage and die pretty fast if exposed to aggressive attacks but also are very cheap and still be able to encounter every ground unit that is below T-34. I always reinforce those Pz II with green soldiers to spare prestige. Nonetheless they also gain kills and therefore get heroes by time. Eventually you can upgrade the surviving Pz II´s to bigger tanks as soon as they got some nice and hopeful heroes.

Early war Pz III´s are better against enemy tanks than early Pz IV. Usually I´m tend to upgrade my Pz III on their tech-ladder until they get obsolete (Pz III "M" or "L"). After that point I often upgrade them into Panthers.

[NotOneStepBack]

Oh yeah and don't forget the FlamPanzer that you can turn any of your Pz2's to. Nice little mobile Pioneer bunker busters

Yes I love the FlammPanzer, too. It could be really a great unit type if the AI wouldn´t permanently go after them! The FlammPanzer seems to be a constant primary target for almost every single enemy unit...

I use units like these as bait. The AI also loves to go after recon. Puts some AT around them for ambushes

[captainjack]

Soft cap can start affecting prestige in 1941, especially if you overstrength expensive units to 13 - it's what made me give up complaining and disable it.

I agree with comments about creative use of heroes. I quite like having three-range (towed) nebelwerfers for attacking troops backed by 3 range artillery, or for counterbattery fire. But then 2 range Stugs are also very handy, have reasonable armour and are a bargain price.

With artillery, I'd suggest taking account of Rate of Fire and ammo stats. RoF less than 100% can reduce the effectiveness of overstrength - eg 90% RoF, 10 = 9 shots, 11 strength also = 9 shots (9.9 rounded down). Also, if you want to provide defensive fire, you will usually want high ammo so you don't run out while there are enemy still attacking - towed 105mm guns are good for this to about 1944 when they start to lose effect against armour (though still good against infantry and other soft targets). If you are attacking you might be looking for striking power rather than ammo capacity, so you have different options.

[hurly]

Ok then. But if you are right - what the heck is a werfhamer?

Well since this dude

is a Hammerwerfer I guess the Iron Ball he swings around his Head is a Werfhammer

I think the Name Werfhammer makes the Wurfrahmen sound even more badass than it already is

[NotOneStepBack]

Made it to Spoils of War, 6700 prestige. Haven't bought a tank yet, and have an entirely different core. Things are looking up! I am enjoying this new play style more and am glad I switched.

[88mmFlak]

I think the Name Werfhammer makes the Wurfrahmen sound even more badass than it already is

Yup. I´m pretty sure that the word Wurfrahmen does sound pretty awkward in english. But a Werfhammer...uuuh...the sound itself makes me afraid.

[NotOneStepBack]

I'm glad I contributed to a running forums joke

9300 Prestige now and I just started Lillehammer. Still haven't bought any tanks. Haven't gotten an SE tank yet, disbanded several SE infantry units, kinda annoying. I realize that '39 is pretty efficient with just infantry and artillery. Even had little trouble at Spoils of War with the several anti-tank units I have now.

[TSPC37730]

For those curious my old core is:

12x '43 infantry
10x PZ IV G
2x recon
4x 21cm arty
2x '42 nebelwerfer
1x werfhamer
2x StuH '42
2x 88 AT/AA
6x FW 190
3x Stukas
3x HE 111

That seems a little aircraft heavy IMO. In adverse weather they're simply no use, so I try to use fewer of them. Was also surprised you didn't have any Tigers as well. I like smaller artillery - I usually mix the 15 cm & 17 cm versions. These have better ammo & less of a ROF hit, but, they'll still do some damage & accumulate kills. This in turn will lead to a hero or two down the road. I also like to mix in a few grenadiers as well for attacking enemy armor in close defense situations. I absolutely agree with the strategic bomber thinking - while you're doing well to chip off a strength point or two with them, it is in the bigger picture great fun to take pot shots at T34/43's & SU152's with no ammo. Lastly, no SB elite reinforcements should be needed - they (and artillery) gain experience quickly. Good luck!

[TSPC37730]

Oh yeah and don't forget the FlamPanzer that you can turn any of your Pz2's to. Nice little mobile Pioneer bunker busters

Yes I love the FlammPanzer, too. It could be really a great unit type if the AI wouldn´t permanently go after them! The FlammPanzer seems to be a constant primary target for almost every single enemy unit...

Indeed. FlammPanzers are fantastic. I often play with 2 of them once they're out. They're great against entrenched infantry & any soft target. They can even take a shot at mopping up a 1 or 2 strength tank due to their great ROF. But, IMO, their upside is pretty limited post-Stalingrad. You're doing more defending & so the enemy is more likely to be attacking you - often with overstrength tanks. I absolutely agree that the AI does seem to target them. It seems that the AI likes to go after targets where it will cause the most prestige loss - which would include a weak FlammPanzer.

Even though the FlammPanzers will become more & more of a target, they're usually great for upgrading to your choice of tank in '43 & beyond. Despite their late availability, they can be among your first units to rack up a second or even third hero. You can certainly leverage these at trade in time.

[goose_2]

I love the fun discussions that are being generated on this thread. Very enjoyable to read.

I have very much enjoyed playtesting and found that the Soviets have a couple of great Anti-tank artillery units and America has the great M3 GMC and Britain has the versatile 25 pounder.

These units are great, specifically the M3 GMC, to build up large amounts of experience fast so you can then upgrade to a nicer unit like the Wolverine.

I just finished Storming Stalingrad, awesome epic scenario, and am now given the option to get StuH 42.
I know this is something that has the AT/Artillery switch mode but with the limited 1 range I am less than eager to buy or switch any of my current artillery to this unit.

Is this unit worth it to switch any of my current artillery to?
How many do you have in your core, how many do you bring into battle?

Is there ever a nice artillery unit that the Germans get that can switch from AT to artillery?
If so what is it and when does it come into play?

I have played a lot of MP maps and I do not remember Germany ever fielding anything equivalent to the allied's switcheroo AT/Artillery.

Thanks for the advice.

[NotOneStepBack]

At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.

[TSPC37730]

I just finished Storming Stalingrad, awesome epic scenario, and am now given the option to get StuH 42.
I know this is something that has the AT/Artillery switch mode but with the limited 1 range I am less than eager to buy or switch any of my current artillery to this unit.

I like the StuH 42's. They have mobility & some defensive strength so you can move them forward with your armor with less risk. Switching to the AT role is handy for mopping up work. It also allows the unit to collect kills faster, which means faster arrival of heroes. I recommend using them as often as possible in the AT role against weakened tanks, HT's & recon units.

Note also that you can capture two SU-122's along the way in the GC. Perhaps there are more but I am avoiding that thread. They offer a similar AT/Artillery capability but have a range of 3. I believe the rest of their stats are similar but not quite equal.

[TSPC37730]

At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.

You can get away with avoiding elite replacements through much of the '39 campaign since the experience cap is 225. Even if you drop your unit experience down a bit with green replacements, you'll still make much or perhaps all of that up in the next scenario or two. In '40 the cap goes to 275 & it's even higher in future years, so, this trick doesn't work as well. It takes too long to make up the lost stars.

I'd upgrade your Pz 1 tank. It's so pointlessly weak that it will take forever to accumulate kills. I understand wanting to be a penny pincher with your prestige - you will need ALL of it come late '43 - but, you can take it too far I think.

[goose_2]

I just finished Storming Stalingrad, awesome epic scenario, and am now given the option to get StuH 42.
I know this is something that has the AT/Artillery switch mode but with the limited 1 range I am less than eager to buy or switch any of my current artillery to this unit.

I like the StuH 42's. They have mobility & some defensive strength so you can move them forward with your armor with less risk. Switching to the AT role is handy for mopping up work. It also allows the unit to collect kills faster, which means faster arrival of heroes. I recommend using them as often as possible in the AT role against weakened tanks, HT's & recon units.

Note also that you can capture two SU-122's along the way in the GC. Perhaps there are more but I am avoiding that thread. They offer a similar AT/Artillery capability but have a range of 3. I believe the rest of their stats are similar but not quite equal.

Yeah I have one of those SU-122's and it has 2 stars already that is why I asked the question.
I will take your suggestion under advisement.

[NotOneStepBack]

At Narvik, this is proving to be quick economical. I have 10k prestige before I start and all of my units in reserve are:

2x grenadiers (starting wehrmacht upgraded)
2x paratroopers
3x alpine infantry
1x pioneer
1x PZ IA (starting tank)
1x PZ 38 (picked it up free in one scenario)
1x SE PZ IIIF
2x Recon
1x Panzerjager
1x 3.7 pak
7x 10.5 cm art
1x captured 105mm arty
2x 8.8 AT/AA
2x BF 109
1x BF 110C (free unit)
2x HE 111

It is MUCH more economical to have a lot of arty, suppress, surround and surrender. Any suppression before any attack saves you lots of prestige. I also have never used elite replacements yet. I might not, but I doubt that would stand through Russia.

You can get away with avoiding elite replacements through much of the '39 campaign since the experience cap is 225. Even if you drop your unit experience down a bit with green replacements, you'll still make much or perhaps all of that up in the next scenario or two. In '40 the cap goes to 275 & it's even higher in future years, so, this trick doesn't work as well. It takes too long to make up the lost stars.

I'd upgrade your Pz 1 tank. It's so pointlessly weak that it will take forever to accumulate kills. I understand wanting to be a penny pincher with your prestige - you will need ALL of it come late '43 - but, you can take it too far I think.

I upgraded my tanks to PZ IV's and bought 6 more at the start of '40. It is entirely possible on FM difficulty to not buy tanks until PZ IV's are available.

I've also found that paratroopers are invaluable for picking up easy prestige off the main roads...they pay for themselves

[captainjack]

Flammpanzer 2 is pretty good once you learn how to use it. They make a great team with a Wurfrahmen (Werfhammer also sounds kind of cool) and a fast 20mm mobile AA. I use a 20 because the speed ensures it keeps contact, and as a deterrent, the presence is more important than the hitting power. Once it gets its first star it can be upgraded cheaply to something a bit more effective. If you get a +3D hero, they can be brilliant defending close terrain as well as attacking it. Though that's generally true of most +3defence heroes.

The StuH is an interesting one. Better SA but worse HA, lower ammo and initiative, much better armour and an AT switch. To me this is the best form of upgrade, as you have to think about it.

I've never done well with paratroopers although there are two scenarios where I can sometimes get some benefit from them.

[NotOneStepBack]

After finishing The Hague, I think it's time to start using elite replacements. The AI has a ton of infantry at that scenario and it was tough of my PZ IV's with no exp. It's also difficult to tell if it's better to go ground AA or use fighters. On one hand I like having total air superiority with fighters, but then they are close to useless once you have it. On the other hand, I hate being harassed all scenario from the air with only AA units on the ground, but the versatility of them also being AT is great.

Sigh. 13.8K prestige however starting Sedan. I usually go the Maubeuge path, wonder which one has more flags.

[verstaubtgesicht]

After finishing The Hague, I think it's time to start using elite replacements. The AI has a ton of infantry at that scenario and it was tough of my PZ IV's with no exp. It's also difficult to tell if it's better to go ground AA or use fighters. On one hand I like having total air superiority with fighters, but then they are close to useless once you have it. On the other hand, I hate being harassed all scenario from the air with only AA units on the ground, but the versatility of them also being AT is great.

Sigh. 13.8K prestige however starting Sedan. I usually go the Maubeuge path, wonder which one has more flags.

Much better to use fighters - they are not useless once you achieve air superiority. First, in most scenarios there are waves of enemy air units, so fighters will be busy every 3-4 turns. Second, it is quite important and useful to harass entrenched units in the hinterland with fighters (unless they have AA, of course), so that their entrenchment level doesn't rise to ungodly levels, and also reducing entrenchment before forcing a surrender without damaging a unit too much. Third, how about those annoying pesky strength 1 retreating leftovers that will reinforce unless finished off by a fighter? There is some rationale for an 88m early on because of the AT switch, especially in defensive scenarios, so I usually have one of those.

[NotOneStepBack]

I'm finding that it pays to have both more and more. I have 3 88's now with some exp. If I expect a heavy tank battle (not hard to predict) I deploy them with 1 or 2 fighters. I have 4 total now, picked up 2 free ones as the campaign went on. If I am on a map where I have to move a lot of distance, I go the all fighter route. When bad weather hits Russia, I'll be glad I have the AT.

Those 88's are well worth their prestige...some scenarios they saved me. Especially Spoils of war...they killed that KV tank. Setting up tank traps is the best way to use them.

[alkafluence]

I just finished Storming Stalingrad, awesome epic scenario, and am now given the option to get StuH 42.
I know this is something that has the AT/Artillery switch mode but with the limited 1 range I am less than eager to buy or switch any of my current artillery to this unit.

I like the STuG IV. But, it starts out in the AT category. It's really nice when the STuG starts to become overwhelmed when fighting defensively against the Soviets later in the war. So, I upgrade my STuG 3Gs to the IV. It has relatively decent AT stats, but it excels when it switches to an artillery. It becomes a range 2 arty when switched into that mode. This is really useful for racking up experience, if you need to develop some units quick, later in the war. [Assuming you don't have a stable of XP'd units already.]