I have finished both campaigns, now on HARD. I tried a little experiment, using only "republican" units with romans and velites instead of archers. I got the next armies:
Triarii were the backbone of my army, with Ayax standard and everything. I got trouble at Cinoscephalos (sp? Dog's Head) and one battle from the Spartacus campaign (last one mostly because I couldn't get enemies in rough terrain with my light infantry). Dog's Head is a nightmare and I won't try it again, even on hard (let's not talk bout very hard). I found civil war campaign easier than in normal, for some reason.
Started one gaul/very hard, stucked on the second scenario (the one with the mighty enemy general with the word of your father...)...I guess very hard is too much for me , but I'll keep trying
I've just finished the 68 maps of the Roman campaign. Bring on the 40 maps of the Celtic campaign, says I, disconbobulatedly (dazed or confused). The level was on normal, the unit's equipment varied from between grades 1 and 5. The two units of Aux. Cavalry had level 5 armour. Every unit had weapons, armour, boots and helmets as allowed within their troop type. No unit was awarded a standard. The archers had stronger bows, extra arrows and heavy missiles only. The velites had extra javelins and heavy missiles as well as grade 1 weapons, armour, boots and helmets. I even tried the Dacian Falx for my auxilia bodyguard! Yes, I really did!!!
My army, in recruitment order, was as follows:-
Type/Level/XP
Legate 1-16-2,446
Scouts/Bodyguard 1-15-15,789
Scouts 2-14-14,672
Auxilia/Bodyguard 1-24-73,036
Auxilia 2-23-67,205
My final fame total was 119,015, out of a possible 143,875 (I will do better), with cash in hand of 3,660 denari. The total xp was in excess of 1 million (1,101,397).
Tactics: Find a good terrain feature to hide behind and shoot the crap out of anyone silly enough to come near me! Or hide behind the legionaries and shoot the crap out of anyone bold enough to come near them! Once the enemy's either dead or fled send out the heavy cavalry to mop up what's left. It ain't in "Caesar's Gallic Wars", but it works. Julius Caesar, I isn't!
Conclusions: Next time I must have more "heavy" cavalry and infantry!! I stopped recruiting after map #38, BIG mistake! I found some of the maps harder than others, the time limit scenarios caused the most problems. Some scenarios took several attempts to master, but, as an experience, definitely worth repeating, many, many times!!!
This run-through was more in the way of a fact-finding mission, as will be the Celtic campaign!
I came, I saw, I wrote down what I came to see!!! Or, in my case, I came, I saw, I hid!!!
Perhaps my new signature, eh???
Vale
M. Spedius Corbulo (aka Spediorix - my new Celtic persona)
After one quick run through the Roman campaign, I decided to take a more cold and calculating approach to building an army and assigning "promotions", and re-ran the campaign on HARD. After replacing losses and leveling up the units after the last battle, here is what I ended up with, in the order in which I recruited them:
Early (core) units:
Legate (18) 3,526 XP
Auxilia I (26) 81,492
Auxilia II (23) 64,655
Aux.Cav. I (22) 55,799
Aux.Cav. II (20) 45,927
Principe I (26) 85,628
Principe II (25) 78,893
Principe III (25) 77,059
Principe IV (25) 76,336
Archer I (26) 82,569
Archer II (27) 88,823
After recruiting all of these units, I provided Level 1 weapons, armor, and other equipment before recruiting enough additional units to fill the 20 squad roster:
Principe V (21) 50,896
Principe VI (19) 44,145
Aux.Cav. III (17) 31,678
Auxilia III (17) 22,820
Auxilia IV (14) 16,114
Archer III (21) 54,990
Archer IV (19) 43,368
Aux.Cav. IV (12) 11,132
Principe VII (10) 7,717
All melee units were equipped with Level 3 weapons and armor, extra ammo where available, plus Level 1 or 2 helmets and Level 1 boots. Archers had stronger bows, extra arrows, and three were upgraded to heavy missles, one of those given the "Bow of Ulysses" for the final battle, in addition to Level 1 melee weapons as a precaution (one of my archer units was attacked earlier by a light infantry unit, and went toe-to-toe, giving better than it got.
Additional units were used throughout the campaign, mostly an extra skirmisher or militia unit or two during the early going, and whenever I had an extra 50 or 100 Denarii lying around, and were then disbanded to recover the Denarii to purchase the better units listed.
Ending Fame was 416,125
Ending Denarii was over 1400, which I was considering using to try out a Praetorian unit, but ran out of battles.
Just finished the Roman campaign on Normal. Most of it seemed a little easy but like everyone else the time limited battles gave me some problems. The heavily armored phalanx's gave me the most difficulty but now I see the advantage of the Armor Piercing skill.
I used a "pure" Republican Roman army based off the DBA and Armati miniture rules. Skirmishers > Velites, Militia > Velites, purchased one Hastati then Scout > Aux. Cavalry. As much as possible I tried using typical Roman deployment i.e. Velites forward, Hastati front rank, Principe second rank, Triarii third rank and Cav on the flank(s). On the casualty limit scenarios this usually wasn't practical and the the thin armored Hastati and Velites were moved to the rear.
Principe's seem to be the "best bang for your buck". Especially considering I didn't recruit my first one until after I had already added 2 Hastati's.
I was concerned I would have problems with rough terrain but the Velites proved capable of holding their own. They didn't destroy too many units in melee but they could usually hold out long enough to give me a chance to hit the enemy from behind.
lcjr wrote:Just finished the Roman campaign on Normal.
Ave lcjr,
Let me be the first to welcome you to the Legion Arena Forum.
I've just read, with some interest, your experiences during the Roman campaign.
Those velites are tough little "muvvers" and, as you say, quite capable but only if you can get them on to rough terrain or woods. Then they really can "kick ass and take names"!!
Generally speaking, how did you enjoy your first run-through of the Roman campaign? Will you try it again, with maybe a differently configured army? Or perhaps you're going straight into the Celtic campaign.
I'm currently fighting my way through the Celtic campaign. I'm about half way through as I write, it feels kinda odd fighting against Roman armies.
Keep well and a belated merry Christmas and a prosperous gaming new year.
Hmm I've noticed that most people seem to use a lot of units, yet they all seem to have similar levels to the smaller amount of units that I use. Surely less fighters = more kills = more XP for each?
Thanks for the welcome Spedius01. Played around with the Celts a little and am now trying the Roman campaign on hard with an Imperial Legion.
Surely less fighters = more kills = more XP for each?
Depends on how XP is awarded. Seems the higher your level is over the opponents the less you get and vice versa. I haven't been paying too much attention but it seems XP/level requirements are geometric. So once your troops get to the same level or higher than the enemies you'll being earning fewer XP's while needing more to level. Did that make sense?
Sacredzero, I noticed that newly recruited units tended to quickly catch up to the veteran units in terms of levels. Since units get less XP for killing opponents of lower level (or of a weaker class), while the new units get more for killing higher-level opponents, things seem to mostly even out after a dozen battles or so. For instance, your Legate will gain 0 XP for killing low-level peasants in the beginning of the game.
The one way to keep your veterans advancing is to direct them at the best opposing units. Taking down high-level heavy cavalry is a points bonanza, for example. The newbies will gain points from pounding on the weaker units, so you can learn to arrange your forces not only to win battles, but to milk the most XP from the encounter, which will serve you well in future rounds.
I've just finished the 41 maps of the Celtic Campaign. I'm suffering from a sore neck, back and eyes, but I'm content!
My army, in recruitment order, was as follows:-
The difficulty level was set at normal.
The final fame was 54,365 out of a possible 61,125, not too good, eh? (I can and will do better, next time!!)
Cash in hand was 9,020 denari. (The last of the big savers!!)
Tactics:-
You guessed it, find a big terrain feature to hide behind and shoot the crap out of all and sundry.
Conclusions:-
Don't waste promotions on anti-elephant skills because there aren't any, no elephants that is! I knew that Claudius had brought some over with him so I was expecting to see some, but, no elephants! All in all an enjoyable experience, pity there weren't more missions! I will be playing through it again, this was more in the way of a look-see, a recce in force.
More Conclusions:-
I was disappointed with the javelinmen, no matter what I tried with them, I just couldn't get them to throw. They would stand around "awaiting orders" and, by the time I got them into range, the battle was already over. So, no javelinmen next time. Incidently, the Scouts, Warriors, Nobles and Veterans were all awarded the "Frenzy" skill. I also noticed the Archers/Skirmishers get the "Anti-Elephant Specialist" skill! It's a shame the Romans don't have them, they would fit in quite well with the Militia and Republican armies!
The hardest battle:-
The hardest battle was #36, the "Battle of the Medway" (Take less than 200 casualties. Gain victory in under 250 minutes). All those Auxila, Archers, Cavalry and dense forests too. I only had 4 warriors and my delinquent javelinmen. Not the best force to send into the woods. I managed to get through it losing 199 men with 10 seconds left on the clock. Not a good advert for the "Best General of the month" competition. Phew!!! I'm metaphorically wiping my brow.
Overall I thought my Archers were a bit too overpowered, especially after they got the Strong Bows improvement. They could make mincemeat out of approaching infantry and often would cause them to route before they got anywhere near my front lines.
Auxila and Principe had Lv4 Weapons, Lv3 Armor and Helmet, Armor of Achilles.
Aux Cav had Lv4 Weapons, Lv3 Armor and Helmet, Sarmation Cav Armor, Teutonic Horses and Armor of Achilles
Velites and Archers just got Stronger Bows, Heavy Missiles and Ammo.
Auxilia performed extremely well in all terrain. By the Civil Wars they were taking out the weaker Legionaries in the open. IMHO they're the best all around unit.
Elephants were a mixed bag. Did extremely well in some key battles and completely fell apart in some others. Level extremely slowly and skill and equipment selection is quite limited. Still an interesting experiment.
Legate 18 hard to raise him
Militila 53 with miracle banners, need not to watch and just let them charge, though sometimes fail
Skirmisher 26 to accompany elephants
Scout 31 with miracle warhorse and master dodge
Militia 46 as this is light infantry with mighty punch, so need not to warry about terrain
Militia 51
Scout 37 with miracle warhorse and master dodge
Elepahnt 16 hard to raise, too few against enemy troops, so all dumbos are binded together
Elephant 16
Elephant 16
Archer 23 due to bad deployment, sometimes got into melee combat, and without good drill skill, hard to manuver during battle
Archer 22
Archer 20
Elephant 15
Elephant 14
Legionary 18 in lieu of war elephants, good many troops in one unit, so good punch.
Legionary 20
Hardest battle
the battle which have casuality limits and time limits, kind of double binding, are hard.
comments and what's next?
with first try, enemy units deployment is known, though their operation plan is unknown, so I ought to have reserve to counter their tactics.
Next time, auxiliary cavalry with trample and concuss might be good.
possum wrote:
Tora^3, glad to see you share my taste for "1337" Militia units
Yes, I love militia, thanks to your post. And I tried peasants on Celts campaign , but not going well.
Roman camapaign without heavy infantry is also hard.
06. Archers 1-(29)-97,195-(Grade 2 Weapons & Helmet plus Stronger Bows, Extra Arrows, Heavy Missiles plus Odysseus' Bow)-1,445/1
07. Auxilia 3-(21)-52,314-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet)-1,008/33
08. Velites 1-(23)-43,594-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet plus Extra Javelins & Heavy Missiles)-442/48
09. Hastati 1-(22)-76,819-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet, Grade 1 Boots & extra pilum)-1,276/201
10. Hastati 2-(21)-69,976-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet, Grade 1 Boots & extra pilum)-1,214/220
11. Archers 2-(25)-77,102-(Grade 2 Weapons & Helmet plus Stronger Bows, Extra Arrows & Heavy Missiles)-1,086/0
12. Auxilia 4-(20)-49,053-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet)-668/148
13. Velites 2-(21)-36,605-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet plus Extra Javelins & Heavy Missiles)-312/19
14. Hastati 3-(19)-51,483-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet, Grade 1 Boots & extra pilum)-643/191
15. Aux. Cavalry 1-(25)-78,457-(Grade 3 Weapons, Grade 2 Armour & Helmet plus Sarmation Cavalry Armour)-1,177/108
16. Archers 3-(24)-70,655-(Grade 2 Weapons & Helmet plus Stronger Bows, Extra Arrows & Heavy Missiles)-854/1
17. Aux. Cavalry 2-(22)-56,638-(Grade 3 Weapons, Grade 2 Armour & Helmet plus Sarmation Cavalry Armour)-749/66
18. Archers 4-(22)-57,515-(Grade 2 Weapons & Helmet plus Stronger Bows, Extra Arrows & Heavy Missiles)-597/7
19. Hastati 3-(16)-30,093-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet, Grade 1 Boots & extra pilum)-311/102
20. Hastati 4-(16)-30,033-(Grade 2 Weapons, Armour & Helmet, Grade 1 Boots & extra pilum)-298/68
The difficulty level was set at "Arcade Mode". I wanted to set a "benchmark", something to measure all of my subsequent scores against.
The final fame total was 130,660 out of a possible of 143,875. (Better than last time)
Cash in hand was 2,720 denaris.
Tactics:
I didn't hide quite so much this time. I occasionally came out and fought the enemy, hand-to-hand, painful!!
Conclusions:
Because this was my second time fighting my way through the Roman campaign I found that it wasn't quite as daunting as it was the first time. I was able to plan my build-up and recruit, promote and equip my troops in a much more organised manner. I still have a long way to go before I can say "I've finally got it right".
Hardest Battle:
They're all hard if you use the wrong troops and tactics.
Further Thoughts:
You'll have noticed that I've made full use of some of the more "exotic" types of equipment as and when they became available. The difference they made to my troop's performance was quite remarkable. Odysseus' Bow is the best value for money, in my humble opinion. I was willing my second archer unit to get up to level 26 so I could buy another one for them, but they didn't quite make it.
The Future:
Another different army composition for a third try at the Roman campaign. It could be a "Militia" army!!!
I finished the Roman campaign on Very Hard. After about the middle of the campaign, it started to get easier, to the point where it wasn't a matter of winning the battles, it got to where I could set up fresh units for easy kills, send cav around to milk trample casualties after units broke, and in general, play with the adversary before delivering the killing blow.
Final Fame was 1,123,060
I had a Principes, one Aux.Cav., two Auxilia, and one Archer unit all at Level 26, with well over half of my 22 units at or above Level 20. I chose to bring the lower level units up, rather than max out a few key squads, so there's not a lot of difference in level.
I agree with hodsveeg, the campaigs are too easy. Even in very hard you will only suffer if your army composition and skill paths is reallly bad, otherwise you just have a fine time laughtering the enemy.
Honestly just by not displaying the enemie's army composition anddeployment would change the game. Also once you won both campaigne the best thing to do is play multiplayer and hope you won't find yourself playing a new be.
The cnclusion of my story is that we should orient the forum, he modding etc in a balancing optic, making each unit uniquely interesting to have more variety of armies and therefore of batlles. For the moment, ive been using the same army for ten battles in a row and have been winning not for sake of strategy but of knoiwledge of the best skillpath ( remember that your units reach at the maximum level 9 in multiplayer so thhe alternatives aren't too numerous...). I hope we can do something about it
thats nice but still there is not much of a challenge in slaugthering a noob who dosn't know that if his troops don't have block and advanced swordsman combined with enhanced morale they don't stand a chance on the field.
There should be some kind of mechanism where the difficulty gets higher if you win by a wide margin, and doesn't progress as quickly if you just scrape by with a marginal victory. The old Microsoft Close Combat game was like that, the further ahead of the timetable you got, the harder it became. The opponent got extra build points, you got less. "Hmmm, 'take less than 120 casualties". I took 27, guess I'm in for some serious trouble next battle..."
, but I'll keep trying
