Just what is a draw or victory????

[bruce1944]

While playing a number of scenarios I have found that what I think is a victory is only a draw . An example follows..Wake Island I manage to sink all the Japanese troop ships plus destroy almost all of her surface fleet. Two Japanese carriers have escaped. I have not lost a carrier. So I have protected the Island and not lost a carrier the two main American objectives. The game however says its a draw!!! How???

[bru888]

I'm missing something (and therefor must know in case I am missing OUT on something). What is "Wake Island"? I mean, in the game. You are obviously playing as the Allies and if it's part of the standard campaign, did I skip over it somehow? (I see no reference to it in the campaign's content folder.) If it's a scenario mod, can you point me to it? Maybe I will play it right away and can attempt to answer your question. Thanks.

[bruce1944]

Sorry multiplayer add on scenario..via ERIK

[Erik2]

I must admit I'm in the dark myself, but here are my guess for what it's worth.

I think you must fulfill all primary and secondary objectives to get a major victory.
If you 'only' get all the primaries (and not all sec), you get a minor victory.
If the primaries are split between the players, it is a draw.

It would be nice if the devs enlightened us poor players.
Maybe there's something in the editor that let the designer fine-tune the victory conditions.

[bru888]

Sorry multiplayer add on scenario..via ERIK

Thanks for the clarification.

[bruce1944]

In at least three scenarios I have gotten all the primary OBJs and still only a draw. I think something is amiss in the game itself.

[bru888]

The semi-official definitions are these:

● Major Defeat: NOT all primary objectives met + NOT all secondary objectives met + hostile alliance has achieved all primary objectives.
● Minor Defeat: NOT all primary objectives met + ALL secondary objectives met + hostile alliance has achieved all primary objectives.
● Draw: turn limit reached + no one has met ALL primary objectives.
● Minor Victory: ALL primary objectives met + NOT all secondary objectives met.
● Major Victory: ALL primary objectives met + ALL secondary objectives met.

However, as I am learning, modders can redefine these as to their own designations and descriptions ("Major/Minor," etc.) as well as their conditions of achievement. So, the problem, if any, would be in the modders design, not the game itself.

This is where the descriptions are in the scenario editor. You can see how they can be edited - notice how Draw is actually considered DEFEAT in this scenario. The Triggers page is where the conditions are defined. Goodness knows how that can be modified!

Scenario Editor page.jpg (201.47 KiB) Viewed 2957 times

[adherbal]

The "mission > briefing" panel shows 5 outcome message boxes (title, textbox and ID for the outcome image filename). The conditions to achieve these are what bru888 just posted. This cannot be changed directly, but of course you can may the text say anything you want and the triggers give total control over how primary and secondary objectives work in a specific scenario.

[bruce1944]

Screenshot 7.jpg (118.22 KiB) Viewed 2952 times

Hmmm using Eriks Midway as example I met all the primary objectives but not all the secondary. Should have been a minor vic, but displayed as draw. The real scenario is long gone but I do remember the results. Defended Midway . Did not lose any carriers. Did not sink Japanese carrier.

[uran21]

It should be tested but... maybe if both sides achieve primary objectives game ends in a draw?

Edit: Tested, it is not the case. With both sides achieving all primary objectives it gives Victory outcome as it should.

Do you have a briefings screenshot for this scenario?

[bruce1944]

Here is what I think you want.

[bruce1944]

Number 2

[bruce1944]

Number 3

[uran21]

Regarding problem you are having it looks like outcome events are not causing it.

Although according to my knowledge custom outcome title cannot be defined without custom outcome text.

Next thing to look would be triggers. I did tried to load this scenario (1v1 Midway 1942 v6.7) but editor will not load it for me.

[Erik2]

I've updated Midway. Could you please see if you're able to load it now?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/168 ... 201942.zip

[uran21]

Unfortunately no luck with loading v6.8 either. Recently I am experiencing game problems no one else has.

[uran21]

Erik I was able to load Midway scenario! Problem is in triggers.

So Midway is an island of 3 hexes owned by US player from the start. US player needs to defend it and Japanese player capture it. Triggers for Japanese player are fine and at the first glance it looks to me when Japanese player captures all 3 Midway hexes game is over. On the other hand when owning hexes defending player owns from the start is condition for victory there must be an additional condition set. The one related to time. Defenders conditions should be met only at scenario end. The way conditions were defined US player should win after first turn. But he doesn't! This is because conditions were never actually checked by the game because Trigger Event for US player conditions were set to be checked when Capture VP Event occurs. If US player is successful this event never happens and conditions are never checked so Draw is proclaimed.
Practically this is multi layered problem. You should change Trigger Event for US Midway trigger to Turn Start and you should add another condition to that same trigger, Check Turn with Scenario Turn limit enabled.

[Erik2]

Thanks for looking into the triggers and good deductive work!

The Japanese trigger is by design, whenever they captured Midway there was no (Mid)way the US could re-capture it during the scenario length.
So the moment they grab all 3 locations, the scenario should end.
I've added a 'at scenario end' trigger to the US Midway objective.