Battlefield Europe - Operation Zitadelle Redux (General)

[GeneralWerner]

Berlin - July 02 1945, the day WW2 ended – headquarter of the OKW
An armistice is now active for all front lines.

Reichsfeldmarschall Werner is very satisfied with the result.

After the disaster of Stalingrad it was feared that the whole German east front would sink into chaos opening the Red Army the roads to Berlin. But the victories at Kursk, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow and several victorious battles at the Volga River changed the table in the east. The dream of the “Lebensraum im Osten” finally came true.

In the west the archenemy France is defeated and occupied.

The southern part of Italy is lost.

The British Empire has to live with the shame that from now on Scotland is in German hands.

There was even a chance to defeat the Russians in their own country but the fierce Russian resistance saved the exhausted Red Army a draw.

July 02 1945. It is over. Huge parts of West, Central and East Europe are under control of the Axis. From the 8 strategic targets at the Volga River 5 were captured (yellow). Time ran out for the Wehrmacht to reach even a victory in the east.

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[BiteNibbleChomp]

So, are we going global now

Great work on your victory (well, draw. but that doesn't sound as good)

- BNC

[JimmyC]

Congrats on doing so well GW, although its a shame that the official result was a draw.

Still, you captured a lot more territory than last time and perhaps if given a little more time you could have beaten the Russians. It was also a very nice move to capture Scotland!

[captainjack]

Well done General (that should really be Field Marshal given your achievements).

[GeneralWerner]

So, are we going global now

Great work on your victory (well, draw. but that doesn't sound as good)

- BNC

Thank you. After fierce and long fighting the OKW is now ordering a pause to relax and recover.

Congrats on doing so well GW, although its a shame that the official result was a draw.

Still, you captured a lot more territory than last time and perhaps if given a little more time you could have beaten the Russians. It was also a very nice move to capture Scotland!

Thank you. Time is often the critical point. That is why I like this mod so much. If you are doing the right things at the right time everything is good. If you are doing the wrong things you are punished immediately. And if you are doing the right things at the wrong time (or taking too long) you will be punished some rounds later

You have really to provide a constant good performance to get a victory. I was very succesful at Scotland, in Italy, in France, at Kursk, at Leningrad and at Stalingrad. But in the battle of Moscow I was not as good and that led to a draw instead of a MV.

Again to Mr. McGuba: thank you very much for this mod.

Well done General (that should really be Field Marshal given your achievements).

Thank you.

[GeneralWerner]

Review

I played this Zitadelle scenario mainly again to check whether an invasion in northern Scotland is still possible in 1943/44. But after the successful invasion (reaching my big goal to prevent the D-Day and leaving all my experienced troops in the east) of course I wanted to beat the Russians until round 99. Here I am comparing my two Zitadelle AARs to show why this didn’t work and how different a battle can be if some decisions are slightly made in a different way.

In my first Zitadelle play I had a lot of hard work stopping the Red Army counter attack starting end of 43 near Smolensk and hunting all the Red Army units that even broke through further to the west. So in my second play I was more aggressive at the beginning of the battle moving my troops quickly in unoccupied cities to close the ways for the Red Army to the west.

Begin of April 1944. First Zitadelle AAR. A long battlefield from east to west. Russian artillery and infantry concentrated in the west far away from Moscow. Mainly tank forces protecting Moscow. A weak point can be seen in the setup of the Russians west of Moscow that I immediately selected as target for my tank attack. But the Red Army always threatens to break through to the west.

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Begin of April 1944. Second Zitadelle AAR. A more compact battlefield. No chance for the Red Army to move further west. But now more artillery/infantry nearer at the western border of Moscow. Also infantry around and in Moscow disturbing my tanks to resupply/refuel.

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Nevertheless. My feeling at this time was that I was doing better than in the first AAR. My tanks already have reached Moscow in the south. And there is no need to send troops to the west to hunt Red Army units that broke through to the west. But only three rounds later it looks very, very different.

[GeneralWerner]

Three rounds later.

End of May 1944. First Zitadelle AAR. The decision was made. German Panzers have split the Red Army in a western and an eastern part. Panther tanks used a gap in the reinforcement queue of the Red Army and rushed through the empty Moscow to cut off Moscow from further enforcements coming from east.

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End of May 1944. Second Zitadelle AAR. The big difference. No split off the Red Army in two parts. The Red Army now stands very compact west of Moscow and they have even pushed back the German tanks south of Moscow a little bit. Thus there is no problem for the Red Army to move more and more enforcements (yellow) to Moscow postponing the German occupation of Moscow and the move to the Volga River for several months.

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I think here I gambled away my chance for a minor victory in the east because all the following problems: Reaching the Volga some rounds too late, having too few tank troops in the south, using my bombers too late to support the Finnish troops in the very north were created in this battle.

[McGuba]

I think here I gambled away my chance for a minor victory in the east because all the following problems: Reaching the Volga some rounds too late, having too few tank troops in the south, using my bombers too late to support the Finnish troops in the very north were created in this battle.

And maybe you also had bad luck. There is some randomness in the mod: enemy units may appear at different places at different times, no two replays can be exactly the same. (New Soviet units appear in the Ural, but at random locations. So they reach Moscow at different times in different replays depending on their distance form the capital when they are spawned.) As a result you might had a worse concentration of enemy units at Moscow in the second case. And they might have moved differently, taking different positions. And then there are the different dice rolls.

Anyway, it is very interesting to compare two replays and to analyse them.

I think achieving MV from this save is very, very difficult. I honestly do not know how Uhu could make it. He should really explain in detail, I will ask him.

[JimmyC]

Thanks for posting this analysis. Its really useful to read through to get ideas for our own playthroughs.

Once I finish my current game I think I will try this one starting at Kursk. I might try a combination of your tactics from both 1st and 2nd playthrough. So I am thinking to just hold the Rhine and concentrate all available forces on defeating the red army, whilst ignoring the Caucuses. Do you think it is achievable doing it in that way?

[Uhu]

Hi my fellow Generals and Feldmarschalls!
So, I'm playing right now this damn hard save-start! Firts I started to play the Stalingrad-save, but then I paused it (aiming a DV), and started this. Of course on Rommel mode (prestige manually calculated) and with dice chess mode. Therefore the prestige is extreme scarce, and even that will be taken away by the bombings. After several reloads, I'm now at turn 85.
- I could initiate an invasion and captured Plymouth at turn 72 and hold my positions since that, so D-day is luckily avoided. Paid a high price for it: lost an almost 3 star Fw 190A (in that moments come out of me the angry outburst cry! ) and the expensive investments had to made also: Panther, leaving 2x 88mm AA and a Semovente 105/25. Plus reinforcing them time to time. But it is worth, because it is still much cheaper than holding the Allies at bay after a D-day.



- Allied airforce make an almost unhindered raid day to day in Western Europe. Only a handful AA batteries are weakening and a few times destroying them, no Axis airforce is present here. Also the Home Fleet is making a brutal tour at the beaches from France to Dänemark destroying everything, what it finds. Happily, I could stop fill the Chanel with some subs and therefore preventing (while taking daily casualties) the armada to come over to the western side of England. Here my fleet waits for bad weather to destroy some guns too, to make the situation of the Plymouth-defenders someway easier.
- The Big Question for me is the Mediterranean. I wanted to create an overpower here (Übermacht! ) and destroy the Allies, than bring all of the forces elsewhere. But I don't know, if it has really the worth, or the MV will be hindered because of that... I brought 2x Fw 190's, 2x 3-star-hero Bf 109's 2x Me410's and the str bombers here - the inexperienced Italian planes were transported to the eastern front as usual -, plus 2x Stugs, 2x 88mm AA's plus the 90/53 AA, a StuH 42 (Semovente 105/25 was also present for a time, but later sent to England) and some ground troops. With this force, the Allied forces could be destroyed, but just slowly... It the very last moment, I could parachute in Palermo and prevent operation Dragoon/Anvil (landing in South France). I could transport some foot troops too, but than the rest of the Allied forces turned back from Italy and now I face a desperate situation in Sicily... Where I already made plans to capture Malta!
*By the way, I find it unfair, that after the Allies initiated a successful landing at Sicily, still I get the penalties, staying on the beach hexes of Sicily. I think, this should be modified in the next BE version. I'm making thoughts to fix this already with strength-giving back cheat.*



On the East:
- South: Right now, I could take the 2nd oil field and capture Caucasus, which is a really needed goal, both the turn based income and the trophy to capturing the region. After that, I can use this powers and a few more to make the push for Stalingrad again. My plan is to move forward and reach Kyubishev from this direction.




- Middle, at Voronezh: every turn a hard time to hold to Soviets at bay, even that I hold the town and defend the Don river. I have a big gap north to Rostov: I tried to guard that region (I did not have more for it), but the poor guard was slaughtered a T-34/85 broke through and I had to divert forces to deal with it. I hope, with the Stalingrad-push, this situation will also be better.



- Middle, at Moscow: the city could be taken, after I really concentrated my forces and took it fast, before the IS-2 reinforcements showed up. Still heavy fights here, but I could push the defense line east of the city. I'm at the gates of Gorky, but Winter has started... I see a chance to make the final push at 1945 and reach Ulyanovsk with these forces. What me really concerns, if I have the time to capture Archangelsk timely! It is always a difficult task, but now I do no not have all of my str bomber forces for it and there is only 15 turns left and Vologda and the Soviet defenders beyond it are not yet crushed...



- North: with the Soviet defense line north of Leningrad already crushed, I found that situation mostly nice. Slowly I destroyed the fort to 1, than waited for the winter and for the heavy bombers. Around the captured of Moscow, I could also capture Leningrad. I do not have to say, how I needed these prestige-boosts... Now, these forces slowly mop-up the armor-belt south of the city. Hopefully, after that, some of this force can be used elsewhere.



- Bonus: Balkan. I face now such a partisan-situation, as never in any game! OK, the rampant Allied air raids make the difference, for my poor partisan-hunting troops, weaken them, but still. Still, I hope so, that I can take back the lost territories, without diverting much regular troops for this task.



Summary: this save-start is extreme hard! About the same difficulty, as the Normandy-save. So I like it. I'm really thankful to McGuba, that he made this saves! (I just could forget the several unit-stats, which I changed for more realistic values in my game, but now here I have to face them). Prestige is so scarce, that in late 1944, I still have a lot of inf units without 1944-gear and also not all PzIII's could yet upgraded to Panther.
The big question is, as I earlier mentioned: was it worth the bring such a power concentration to the Mediterranean, or not? I hope, it was, because I do not want to reload the game again from turn 54...

[Uhu]

By the way GeneralWerner, your AAR's are simply brillant! I just not have the time to read them fully... as I do not have the time to write my owns...yet.
Did you also try the Stalingrad-save to make a DV? I do not find such a thread about it.

[GeneralWerner]

Thanks for posting this analysis. Its really useful to read through to get ideas for our own playthroughs.

Once I finish my current game I think I will try this one starting at Kursk. I might try a combination of your tactics from both 1st and 2nd playthrough. So I am thinking to just hold the Rhine and concentrate all available forces on defeating the red army, whilst ignoring the Caucuses. Do you think it is achievable doing it in that way?

You will see that in this Kursk scenario you face a Red Army with its full power. They still have Leningrad, Moscow, Caucasus and the oil fields in their hand and you will feel the lack of prestige on your side. And you will have a front in Italy because I can't imagine how to defend Sicily.

I think a MV in the east is achievable when you prevent D-Day. With D-Day I guess it is very, very difficult (I don't want to say impossible ).

The defense at the Rhine River provides you a clear front line but it is a long front from the Alps to the sea. And you will fight at the borders of the Reich. So if the Allies capture one of your cities it is already a German city and the draw is gone. That makes the round 99 really exciting because the Allies have the last attack and you can't react anymore.

[GeneralWerner]

By the way GeneralWerner, your AAR's are simply brillant! I just not have the time to read them fully... as I do not have the time to write my owns...yet.
Did you also try the Stalingrad-save to make a DV? I do not find such a thread about it.

I didn't play Stalingrad. From the four save games Moscow for me was too early and Normandy/Bagration too late (with too high frustration level). Deciding between Stalingrad and Kursk I selected Kursk.

Also your AAR above shows some interesting variants. Landing in Plymouth: I never thought about it because you have to transfer your ships back west through the channel first. Counter attack in Italy and recapture Sicily: Tough fighting against very strong Allied troops I guess?

Most interesting now for me is to see how you act in the Stalingrad area.

[Uhu]

. And you will have a front in Italy because I can't imagine how to defend Sicily.

There is a slight chance for it. Here, again the question is, if it has the worth of the high sacrifices/big prestige investments.
- In normal game it has to held at all cost, other way you loose your (hopefully) veteran Italian airforce and naval force, arty and infs.
- In Stalingrad-save, it can be held. I could make it and with relative small sacrifices and investments.
- In Kursk-save...it depends, how much prestige you have. On Rommel difficulty, you will not have it.

What you need for the successful defense?
- Level bombers! I had 3 of them.*
- Veteran Fw190's. I had 4 of them.*
- Some Tac bombers, which can defend themselves: probably Me410's. I had 2 here.*
- Plus at least one armored arty and some cheap Italian inf.

*This was the Stalingrad-save, where I had the time to bring them here.

- With the Kursk-save, I can imagine, that buying 2-3 Semovente 105/25 AND bringing the needed airforce can earn a successful defense of the island. The question is, if the invested prestige will it not needed elsewhere - it can happen, that because of it and the missing airforce in another regions, maybe Sicily can be held, but the overall outcome will not be satisfying.

[Uhu]

...with too high frustration level...

I laughed loud when reading this! But yes: when the AI's turn comes and you hear just the constant roar motors of the airforce of the enemy, the bombers already filled the skies over the key German cities, another 20-30 come and destroy/harm everything, what they find and it is not over, you see the progress bar and it is still not at 50%, than the Soviet start to destroy your high valued unit, then it came the angry outbursts, that "Will you stop it at last, you A-hole?!!!!"
So maybe instead of difficulty level, it is more precise, if it is called frustration level. And for a good end result, the gamer need a high patience level.

Also your AAR above shows some interesting variants. Landing in Plymouth: I never thought about it because you have to transfer your ships back west through the channel first.

I always use for first landing the Plymouth version. First - if full capturing of the island is planned - the progress is slow, but on the other hand, with good planned action, the "eyes" of the enemy (strongpoints, radars) can be put out timely to hide my naval fleet. And you do not need to fear the dreaded Home Fleet. At least for a time. And time is worth.
- In my last full game, when aimed the DV at turn 50, I made also a minor landing at Aberdeen, but it's cost was high and only limited use had it, that 1-2 inf units (which suffered a hell of bombing) could help to my attackers, which advanced from the south.
- In the Kursk-save, if you bring your naval fleet as soon as possible to the Chanel, with fighter-protection, then the Allied airforce will probably not attack it. With the 2-4 destroyers and the tac bombers, you can relative fast destroy the mine at the gate of the Chanel and than travel fest through it to the relative safety.
- In my Stalingrad-save, I will try now to land direct next to London. Simply, because D-day is imminent and because I want a DV and invading from Plymouth would I have not the needed time, until turn 99. Plus, with the Panther, I hope, I can defend my forces. But this time I weakened the Home Fleet strongly, sinking the 13 star Battleship, 2 light cruisers and destroying a lot of destroyers. Without heavy losses: my heavies stayed out of sight and just slaughtered the destroyers, while the bombers and subs made deal with the capital ships.
I will report about the results.

Counter attack in Italy and recapture Sicily: Tough fighting against very strong Allied troops I guess?

Surprisingly though troops! And even one damn capital ship can make the difference, which put out our arty, or key defending inf units. So, for a successful defense at Italy, you need 1-2 thick armored arty (Semovente 105/25, Stuh 42) and the Allied capital ships has to turned out. For which you need level bombers. For which you will strong fighters to defend them. So, the resources will be already drained from elsewhere.

Most interesting now for me is to see how you act in the Stalingrad area.

You mean the Stalingrad-save? I will continue that fight, I paused it at turn 66 to make the Kursk-save. I plan a DV.

[Uhu]

Hm, I really did not mean to make that fortress naval transportable. I guess its the one from Königsberg...

It was so useless in Königsberg

Guys, seriously...It is a serious, complex strategy wargame...and I outburst in loud laughing, when I read you sentences!

On my first view, something seemed not ok, but I did not recognized fully the "transportable fortress". Of course, it would not fit in my realistic gameplay, but that was really funny!