Superior,Average, Poor Skilled Swordsman

[philqw78]

I think HF, average, Armd, Defensive Spearmen are the best value for money. FWIW, which with them its not a lot. Against Pike they would be -POA at impact and evens in combat but for the same points get 6 dice, unless disrupted when they would still get 4.

[dave_r]

I think HF, average, Armd, Defensive Spearmen are the best value for money

Agreed. I even argued (strongly) that they should be the same points as Off Spearmen during development.

Hence the amount of Medieval Cypriots at Chester I suspect. Although none of them did that well..... Obviously the supporting troops were rubbish

Be interesting to see if there is an army that has masses of these fillers with something better - are any of the Arabs going to be Armoured Defensive Spearmen? I will rule out Anglo-Norman

I know there are crusaders, but they are rubbishy knights as well...

[nikgaukroger]

Cypriots came 3rd and 4th at Chester which I think is doing pretty well - better than our 5th anyway

Mind you we did batter Phil & Conrad's Cypriots along the way - OK, they were both pissed, Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one and Conrads dice were on our side ...

At least one upcoming Arab type army will be able to have a BG or two of Armoured Defensive Spearmen ...

[hammy]

Mind you we did batter Phil & Conrad's Cypriots along the way - OK, they were both pissed, Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one and Conrads dice were on our side ...

So that's why you managed to forget to transfer the box of stuff for Si

[dave_r]

Mind you we did batter Phil & Conrad's Cypriots along the way - OK, they were both pissed, Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one

This wasn't mentioned by Phil yesterday. Tell me more....

At least one upcoming Arab type army will be able to have a BG or two of Armoured Defensive Spearmen ...

I am currently investigating buying an Arab army - which ones will have AD spearmen?

[Redpossum]

Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one

Please tell me you're joking here. You guys don't really get into fistfights at these miniatures tourneys, do you?

And when you say "pissed", you mean that in the english sense of drunk, rather than the american sense of angry?

[nikgaukroger]

I am currently investigating buying an Arab army - which ones will have AD spearmen?

Need advice on bowcases?

I'll leave the identity as a mystery, however, the book will be released this year so you should be able to work it out from the armies in the announced books ...

[nikgaukroger]

Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one

Please tell me you're joking here. You guys don't really get into fistfights at these miniatures tourneys, do you?

And when you say "pissed", you mean that in the english sense of drunk, rather than the american sense of angry?

Yes drunk

And Conrad really did inflict a nose bleed on his doubles partner

[flameberge]

I don't know the exact composition of the armies, but the pikes are a good medicine for the victory

Is it me or does this list tend to show they are dropping off in effectiveness as time goes on?

That's what it appears to me. Early on they were winning but as people started to figure out how to beat pike it looks like they had become a lot less effective. The finished well early but started to finish poorly.

I'm curious, does anyone use mid-republican Romans in these tournaments?

[jlopez]

I still haven't come across a case of mass compensating for quality. I took a Free Company list consisting entirely of Superior, HA HF or Kn with one unit of Bidets and another of Peasants (usually hiding in woods) to the Vilches competition and not once did an opponent manage to prevent me contacting the bulk of his infantry with my HF. A column of drilled HF on each flank backed up by two knight BGs in reserve were all it took counter outflanking moves long enough to get stuck in the center.

The only problem I encountered was an Andalusian army composed almost entirely of skirmishers and with its baggage and HF hiding behind terrain. More balanced armies were no problem for my one-dimensional army (I hit you on the head with a big axe, you die).

Are we expecting a Spanish contingent at Britcon to show us how its done?

A contingent of one to be exact (Pedro J. Sanchez), I'll be playing POW. Unfortunately, Spanish wages make a trip to the UK very expensive for most people.

Regards,

Julian

[MARVIN_THE_ARVN]

Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one



Please tell me you're joking here. You guys don't really get into fistfights at these miniatures tourneys, do you?

And when you say "pissed", you mean that in the english sense of drunk, rather than the american sense of angry?



Yes drunk

And Conrad really did inflict a nose bleed on his doubles partner

I would like to add in my defence he did have all the good stuff and failed to collaspe the enemy flank in time than doomed my flank!!!!!!

But....

If we would like to dabble in the truth for a while, yes we were both drunk but if anyone should have been clocked it would have been me with those horrid dice. Although I kind of like the title "beater of doubles partner" and thanks for bigging me up nik (Im only 5ft5 for those who dont know me) it was actually down to a nose bleed or some cocaine he could have snorted before the game.

With regards to my dice rolling my next game pretty much made up for it

Con the bully

[Redpossum]

Phil had a nose bleed because Conrad had clocked him one

Please tell me you're joking here. You guys don't really get into fistfights at these miniatures tourneys, do you?

And when you say "pissed", you mean that in the english sense of drunk, rather than the american sense of angry?

Yes drunk

And Conrad really did inflict a nose bleed on his doubles partner

Sounds like someone failed his command check

[timmy1]

Quote from Nik 'Is it me or does this list tend to show they are dropping off in effectiveness as time goes on?' That is certainly what the stats show.

What I would say is remember 7 years ago when DBM 3.0 came out. Everyone said that Aussies found Bow armies the absolute killers. However in open competition balanced eventually won out. Later Seleucid is the ultimate balanced army with all the toys. However people might find ways to unpick it. You could say that Seljuk Turk is the super army for open competition as it won the two most recent tourneys - the IWF and a local tourney in the UK. Give it another 1000 competitive games and we may have a new favourite.

I would suggest that people wait until all the army lists have been out a year of 2 and they have had enough time to work out what works and what does not before we think of tampering. What I have seen so far is that good armies make less difference than good commanders, with experience of the rules, using a good plan which is as it should be.

[nikgaukroger]

Waiting is so boring - much more fun to speculate wildly now

Mind you I'll be surprised if we're as wrong as the Aussies were about DBM bow armies

[timmy1]

Nik, you are a very naughty boy, encouraging all these people in that way.

[philqw78]

Well since Conrad has stopped a good story with a different, less entertaining one, two lessons to be learnt.
1. For me - Don't pick your nose
2. For Nick - Don't listen to a word I say whilst drunk

[DVeight]

Well, last night the armies of Ptolemy went up against Principate Romans once again. Bladerunners mate was determined to show him how its really done. Blade's was there to watch it all unfold. Needless to say, the romans came off second best once again. They did manage to rout one average pike block but the Tc got to them in time and rallied them back to the cause. the Guard pike (Superior, protected) made mince meat of one legion and it took one legion and its auxilia in flank to destroy the might Thorakotai and kill the FC in the process. I had 5 BGs of pike, one was poor. The elephants went to far forward on their own but survived long enough for the pike to arrive and do their thing.

In the end my thoughts are, despite how close he did get to winning the game, tactics still had a significant part to play. Two of his legions were running around the flanks chasing my cavalry and protecting the rear. This meant two legions out from assisting their other impact foot which were up against 5 pike and one offensive spear BG. Legions need to coordinate well and like someone suggested here, you need to operate your BGs in brigades meaning you group BG's and dont break that larger force up.

[flameberge]

I still haven't come across a case of mass compensating for quality. I took a Free Company list consisting entirely of Superior, HA HF or Kn with one unit of Bidets and another of Peasants (usually hiding in woods) to the Vilches competition and not once did an opponent manage to prevent me contacting the bulk of his infantry with my HF. A column of drilled HF on each flank backed up by two knight BGs in reserve were all it took counter outflanking moves long enough to get stuck in the center.

The only problem I encountered was an Andalusian army composed almost entirely of skirmishers and with its baggage and HF hiding behind terrain. More balanced armies were no problem for my one-dimensional army (I hit you on the head with a big axe, you die).

Are we expecting a Spanish contingent at Britcon to show us how its done?

A contingent of one to be exact (Pedro J. Sanchez), I'll be playing POW. Unfortunately, Spanish wages make a trip to the UK very expensive for most people.

Regards,

Julian

U.S. wages too. I'd love to see England but its not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future.

[Bladerunner]

The friend that my friend DVeight is talking about was one of the play testers for this game. However my friend DVeight won last night on pure luck as he has failed to mention about the 2 BG of Elephants hung around longer than they should as he pass CT during 3 rounds and that was what saved him in the end, and what can you do when someone rolls 11,12 for 3 bound in a row with 2 different BG of elephants for their CT in the end both elephant went but it was too late. Otherwise the outcome would have been different as my friend would of been able to rally his legionaires and been able to face the pike under different circumstances, as DVeight was tactically outplayed and out manouvered and yet the outcome of the dice told a different story.
Eventhough DVeight won the game 13/10 it went to the wire as he said he did rally a BG of pike in the end but was looking very shaky for him through the game.
My friend does not usually run with Participate Roman eventhough he has played with other Roman Armies prior, but he did for this battle to prove to me a point that he would be able to win over the Potolemy pike after I had lost to them the previous week as I had started to question wether the romans would have this problem with pike armies all the time, however eventhough he fought an unbelivable battle the Potlemy Pike where still all standing at the end.

And for the theory of archers used the answer is yes plenty the Romans went in with 4BG of 6 LF archers the objective was to go in with a wave of archers to hold and soften the pike while the Legions came in and caused chaos elsewhere at the same time. However the archers unfortunately didnt really hurt the Pike as much as he would of liked, and the Elephants hung around for too long before the pike came in which at that point cost him the game.

[Bladerunner]

Also before my friend Dveight comments on how the Romans should be played I think he needs to play the Romans against his Egyptian Greeks before he comments on what tactics the Romans should do.