Best Artillery

[goose_2]

?
What do you consider the best German artillery?
The best Allied artillery?
What is your rating on the various artillery in the game?

I see some players using the STUG3b unit. I am unwilling based on its 1 range limitation.
What is the appeal of this artillery?

I seem to favor the Sig based on its movement and range, but I also enjoy the power and suppression of the Nebelwurfer and nothing beats that awesome sound.

I would love to hear the opinions around this very touchy subject.
Thanks!

[Ursulet]

Hi,

My fav arty for the germans are the 10,5 and the stug3b.

Both are cheap, the 10,5 is very good to suppress infantery all war long. The stug with its good ROF is what keeps your tanks alive and going in russia with its good stats and good ammo. Add on a range/attack hero and they become awesome.

That beeing said, nothing beat the yankees for artillery, their SP arty with huge ammo stock is madness. I love them. Add on their cassiope tanks and u have an awesome firepower (and that is necessary with their lousy tanks though)

[jules_slith]

Best german artillery ? StuG IV and captured SU 122
Now seriously:
I vote for the 10.5 cm FH which has a lot of ammo, fires often (I believe 110 % ?) and gives good suppression and when it becomes more experienced it also destroys some points.
Against better entrenched units I prefer the 17 cm K 18; good attack stats and still acceptable ammo.
Both can be relocated quickly with transports but obviously need the set up turn.

For the self-propelled I also ask myself which would be the best balanced. Earlier in the war I also use one or two Wurfrahmen for the same reason. But later on ?

I find the Stug 3b excellent for following units and protect them: practically immune against counter battery fire, good movement and ammo and fuel lasts longer than the one of the front line units. Occasionally against single units it can also move forward and give some suppression (also against single hard targets) so the own tanks keep in good shape. I think their cost is substracted when you upgrade to other Stugs with better range etc. , but I am not really sure about that.

[jules_slith]

Ah, the Sig : I also use them to complement my core because there is nothing else for a long time that is self-propelled with a range of 3 and can help to keep the momentum. But often they fall behind because of their slow movement and a reloading-turn. Also so ill protected like the Wurfrahmen but the latter one gets at least a lot of kills. In total: not really the best.

[Stephen1024]

I like using 10.5 and 17 with Nebelwerfer for my slow core and always make sure nebelwerfer has +1 range hero

I also have fast core which I use sturmpanzer and wurfrahman I know before anyone says sturmpanzer not perfect nor is wurfrahman but I got them good experience and they help to keep moving fast, I always guard with stuGIIIb.

Later I like to have sIG 33 with wurfrahman, I don't upgrade the 10.5 and 17 as there good enough whole war, and cost are very important in 1.20 beyond. I do upgrade stuGIIIb to stuGIV, nebelwerfer I go from 15 to the 20 not beyond.

2x 10.5cm
1x 17cm with range hero
1x nebelwerfer with range hero
2x sturmpanzer update sIG 33
1x wurfrahman if am lucky 3rd range hero here
4x stuGIIIb upgrade to stuGIV


I like having both slow and fast core force that can divide and allow me more flexable approach. For me I discovered that airpower is great but can't trust that weather will allow you use it always. As for weather may maps my fast corps bailed me out allowing me DV because of bad weather or I got bogged down in a fight. So this lot works for me and for me I would say arty probably my best friend.

As for allied its amazing arty would be nice have seriously mixed core borrowed allied arty some the strat bombers mix russian and german tanks, russian and german AT and few nice 88mm AA some the allied soldiers and german you be unstoppable force.

I like in Afrika Korps some the italian arty to.

[captainjack]

One thing I have noticed is when playing German forces I always end up with a mix of artillery types, but for every other army I end up with a very limited range of units (eg nothing but SP155 in US forces). This is partly because there are fewer options, but also maybe because the German units have got a good balance of properties, so they are all good at some things, but not at everything.

My current favourite is a +1 range 21cm nebelwerfer. I just hope for a +1 move hero so it can keep pace with the grenadiers and pioneers.
For SP, I like the Stug 3 (I use Nikki's Stug C, D and E stats in my current mod, which keeps them useful well into 44 West), but once the StugIV becomes available, that is really good, especially as once it gets 2 or 3* (which is pretty easy with artillery) it does OK when switched to AT type.
Recently, I've been using a Wespe. I used to think it was rubbish with its low attack stats, but it works remarkably well against soft targets and has slightly better defensive stats than that Hummel, as well as better RoF and ammo stocks.

Best so far was the +2 move 7.2" in allied corps. No transport needed!

I'm pretty sure that next time I'm asked I'll have a different answer.

[ThvN]

?
What do you consider the best German artillery?
The best Allied artillery?
What is your rating on the various artillery in the game?

I see some players using the STUG3b unit. I am unwilling based on its 1 range limitation.
What is the appeal of this artillery?

This question came up recently, I'll re-quote my answer from here: viewtopic.php?f=121&t=67890#p573884

I avoided the 1-range arty in the beginning, but when used skillfully they can be very good. You can place them behind other units and they will still provide defensive covering fire over a 2-hex range, and are hard to supress. It might not look as if they are doing much, because they won't kill a lot, but they will prevent casualties and are tough enough to survive mistakes or bad luck. On the attack they are more difficult to use, but they are good in closely following units and protecting them against counter attack. They also deal extra damage to structures (forts, strongpoints, etc.). So I often park it next to a target where it covers the units that are next to it, and support the assault gun with extra artillery behind it . Next turn, fire the support first at the structure, than the assault gun, which often leaves them easy targets for the other units.

A more risky tactic is moving two units (preferably Fj or Pioniere, which get the same bonus vs. structures) next to the target, with the assault gun behind them. This will usually keep the infantry alive or safe against counter attack. Than, in the next turn, move one infantry aside but still in contact with the target, and put the assault gun in between and attack the target with all units. First with the assault gun, than the unit that has moved already and then the unit that hasn't moved yet. If the target is completely destroyed, either move the last unit into the hex and put something in its place (now you have a wedge which is covered by the assault gun in the middle) or move another unit from behind in the spot of the ex-target. It depends heavily on the situation, of course.

The StuG IIIB has a Rate of Fire of 11, the SiG just 9, so the lower attack stats of the StuG are a bit deceiving. The StuH42 has the benefit of being switchable. Basically, 1-range artillery is very tough and mobile, so they are good for following tanks and give spearheads some good support if there is a counterattack. You can do the same with the SiG/Sturmpanzer, but those are very vulnerable and carry less ammo.

I seem to favor the Sig based on its movement and range, but I also enjoy the power and suppression of the Nebelwurfer and nothing beats that awesome sound.

I would love to hear the opinions around this very touchy subject.
Thanks!

Well, it depends a bit on what you want to use it for (target types, defense, attack, mobility) and what year (some good early models become obsolete later on). But I'll try, I'd like to hear what you think!

USA: 155mm M12 GMC. This 10-ammo overpowered self-propelled unit is available from the 3rd of Oct. 1942. If I want something tougher I usually go for the switchable M4A3(105) or the Calliope.

Great Britain: not as good as the USA, but they have some very tough units, the Bishop is nice, and the Churchill AVRE is the toughest 1-range artillery I think.

Soviet Union: SU-122. A late 1942 Christmas present. The later SU-152 and ISU models are even better, although some of them are actually in the anti-tank class, and they all have low ammo (but 3-range)

Italy: M40 da 75/18, M43 da 105/25. Both are 2-range and good value for money.

Germany: Early on the Sturmpanzer is very good, and the later SiG 38(t) is similar but much tougher. For slow but steady advances the towed units are slighty better, the optimal for me is the 17cm, but early on the 10.5cm is good enough and very cost effective. The Wurfrahmen is fragile like the Sturmpanzer but packs a huge punch (and yes, the sound is nice), for toughness the StuGIIIB, StuH42 and the 2-range StuG IV (actually in the antitank class) are the top choices for me.

Artillery is one of the few classes where a good hero can transform the effectiveness of a unit. A towed Nebelwerfer with a +1 move hero can help clear Stalingrad or Bastogne like nothing else, and a +1 range hero on a 1-range StuH42 seems relatively more effective than on a 3-range unit. Well, I can't be sure but at the very least it becomes more flexible and far easier to use.

[Horst]

The German 10.5cm has no RoF modifier, by the way.
The Sturmpanzer I is clearly the winner of many battles until you can replace it with something sturdier. Enemy aircraft and artillery love to target its squishy defense, but if you can somehow protect it and silence enemy artillery quickly, your infantry and tanks become an unstoppable stampede.
My favourite artillery would be the Gerät 040 though as nothing is more hilarious than a super-fat gun on tank tracks. The variety show what the Germans has to offer during the war is simply unbeatable and the reason why I - and I bet many others too – would always prefer playing this nation over all the others.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

WWI Siege Artillery if that counts!

Otherwise the siG 38 or that Square nebelwerfer thing.

- BNC

[hs1611]

I prefer WWI Heavy Artillery.

Siege Artillery has only 3 ammo...

[captainjack]

I prefer WWI Heavy Artillery.Siege Artillery has only 3 ammo...

I agree. My WW1 core artillery: 1 siege artillery, everything else heavy artillery.
The exception was in UK18, where I wanted the ability to flatten forts in a hurry and bought some extras.

[ThvN]

The German 10.5cm has no RoF modifier, by the way.

Thanks for pointing out, you are right! I got a bit caught up in the numbers I guess.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I prefer WWI Heavy Artillery.

Siege Artillery has only 3 ammo...

Have you ever fired siege artillery at tanks? You might change your mind after you see what happens!

- BNC

[hs1611]

Yes I have.

Siege Artillery is deadly on tanks and forts, but there aren't that many tanks on WWI.

So, most of my Artillery is Heavy Artillery, but I still use 2 or 3 Siege Artillery units.

[proline]

It's impossible to have a favorite as the Germans, you need to like them all.

1) Sturmpanzer- an early war wrecking ball
2) The 7.5 - 21 cm towed line- a very flexible line where you can cheaply change the calibre depending on what you are going up against
3) sig 38- a great update to the Sturmpanzer
4) The wurfrahmen- great for fast offensive movements against infantry
5) 30cm nblwf- annihilates all infantry (range or movement heroes are a big help)
6) 280mm K5- terrible RoF, terrible ammo, but with some over strength its about the only thing that can suppress late-war Russian tanks

[goose_2]

Proline that was the breakdown I needed.
Thanks for the thorough and well put post.

The more questions I ask, the more I realize how much I still have to learn.

[robman]

Nice mid-war upgrades for free:

Sturmpanzer --> sIG 38(t): same attack, ammo, and movement stats, but vastly better defense values. No down side.

Wurfrahmen 40 --> Panzerwerfer 42: You lose some attack value and one movement point, but you get a very large gain in defense and +1 ammo. So while it does not hit as hard, it hits more often.

[jules_slith]

Hmm... I would consider the 4 movement and 4 ammo a slight downside of the sIG 38(t). I use it also because of the better protection but in comparison to allied SP artillery the germans seemed not be able to keep pace with the time in this arena.

[robman]

Hmm... I would consider the 4 movement and 4 ammo a slight downside of the sIG 38(t). I use it also because of the better protection but in comparison to allied SP artillery the germans seemed not be able to keep pace with the time in this arena.

I meant no downside compared to the Sturmpanzer. If we compare the sIG 38(t) to the Hummel and Wespe, to which the Sturmpanzer can also be upgraded, there are indeed trade-offs. And yes, almost anyway you look at it, the Allies have better SP artillery (just as they did in real life).

[LevV]

I found no better place to ask if anybody ever wondered why the wurfrahmen is so overpriced? I dont use it a lot because it is expensive, but i am now thinking how much gameplay would change if it would cost only APC cost + some extra trained personnel + some extra arty inventory, which I estimate should be no more than 300 (which would be comparable to opposing MRLS Katyusha).

little bit on topic itself: i prefer the 15 cm German arty because its the biggest gun that can be given sdkfz 250 for huge mobility. in MP the 10.5 is some times the max you can afford though
i wish there would be value for 7.5 cm air drop capability, but to this day i couldnt find it (would be more interesting to make it full para capable)