Mixed unit bow in front rank

[stancolleymore]

In the picture above the Chinese unit has lost a front rank heavy weapon base. They are in a wood and shooting out:

1) Only one rank fires in a wood so do they get 1, 2 or 3 dice? I.e. if it is only one rank MUST it be the first rank?

2) They want to charge the medieval cavalry do they have to test to charge as they have bows in the front rank?

I have looked for this being asked before but could not find it.

[petedalby]

A very interesting question.

1) Only one rank fires in a wood so do they get 1, 2 or 3 dice? I.e. if it is only one rank MUST it be the first rank?

Page 139 - Troops inside can only shoot in 1 rank. Page 88 - Terrain that only allows shooting in 1 rank prevents all shooting and support shooting from a 2nd or 3rd rank. I therefore believe that you only shoot with the 1 front rank base in this example. The 2nd rank bow normally shoot from the front rank position but this is specifically prohibited in this scenario.

2) They want to charge the medieval cavalry do they have to test to charge as they have bows in the front rank?

This one is more clear cut. Page 64 - Non-shock medium foot whose front rank has bow etc must pass a CMT to charge or intercept...So yes, I believe a CMT is required since you have MF bow in the front rank.

[stancolleymore]

If the Chinese were outside the wood they would get two dice - 1 front rank base and 1 from the 2 bases in the second rank?

[philqw78]

They'd get 3 as all your bow are in the first SHOOTING rank

[stancolleymore]

They'd get 3 as all your bow are in the first SHOOTING rank

This is NOT what the rules say (top p97):

"If the front rank of a BATTLE GROUP are NOT SHOOTERS, only the 2nd can shoot, but counts as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice. "

The reference is to the battle group and NOT the individual file.

[philqw78]

Well, you only get 2 dice if you decide to read it that way, but I doubt any umpire would. Or at least I hope. Perhaps an oversight. Or was it done on purpose to stop people expanding mixed units so bow were in the front rank

[petedalby]

If the Chinese were outside the wood they would get two dice - 1 front rank base and 1 from the 2 bases in the second rank?

I'm with Phil on this one - 3 dice.

They got 3 dice before the halberd base was lost. Why should they get less now?

[paullongmore]

I agree with Pete and Phil

I don't think the quoted rule actually makes sense if you think it applies to the whole BG rather than by rank.

The rule is

"If the front rank of a BATTLE GROUP are NOT SHOOTERS, only the 2nd can shoot, but counts as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice."

If the requirement was that the front rank are entirely non-shooters why have "only".

If the intention had been to require the entire front rank to be non-shooters to allow the 2nd to count as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice the wording would have been something like:

"If the entire front rank of a BATTLE GROUP are NOT SHOOTERS, the 2nd can shoot, but counts as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice."

As they have said it also makes sense in that the BG had 3 dice before the halbard base was removed why should that rank of bows now having an unimpeded view result in a loss of a dice.

Paul

[philqw78]

I'm with Phil on this one - 3 dice.

Parhaps I'm wrong then

I agree with Pete and Phil

I must be wrong if they both agree with me

[dave_r]

They'd get 3 as all your bow are in the first SHOOTING rank

This is NOT what the rules say (top p97):

"If the front rank of a BATTLE GROUP are NOT SHOOTERS, only the 2nd can shoot, but counts as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice. "

The reference is to the battle group and NOT the individual file.

In this instance the front rank ARE shooters. So for this file, the front rank shoots.

[stancolleymore]

They'd get 3 as all your bow are in the first SHOOTING rank

This is NOT what the rules say (top p97):

"If the front rank of a BATTLE GROUP are NOT SHOOTERS, only the 2nd can shoot, but counts as the 1st shooting rank in determining the number of dice. "

The reference is to the battle group and NOT the individual file.

In this instance the front rank ARE shooters.

So the 2nd rank DO NOT count as the 1st rank of shooters and hence they get 1 dice to add to that of the front rank base thus a total of 2 dice

So for this file, the front rank shoots.

There is no mention of files anywhere in that section just ranks

[stancolleymore]

I think that the unit SHOULD get 3 dice and am quite happy to play that way but I do not think this is what the rules say rather than mean to say.

[philqw78]

I think that the unit SHOULD get 3 dice and am quite happy to play that way but I do not think this is what the rules say rather than mean to say.

I agree

[RobKhan]

Hi All,

I had a game last Tuesday against lots of Japanese with Medium foot heavy weapon bow*. I think we made a mistake in the light of this "...This one is more clear cut. Page 64 - Non-shock medium foot whose front rank has bow etc must pass a CMT to charge or intercept...So yes, I believe a CMT is required since you have MF bow in the front rank."

My opponent charged me without doing a test. Does the test requirement also apply to HW + Bow* MF??

Cheers
Rob

[petedalby]

Does the test requirement also apply to HW + Bow* MF??

I don't believe so - no.

[philqw78]

I'd agreed with Pete. I think its foot with bow, xbow, longbow. Not Bw*