Unit deployment in Britain

[Plaid]

In my recent game I have found out (the hard way) that British can deploy their units in cut off cities (3 supply).
I have surrounded Norwich and reduced local garrison to low strength only to see it being replaced by fresh corps.

Is it bug or working as intended? Other powers seem unable to deploy units in isolated non-capital cities.

[Vokt]

My guess is that the action you have mentioned implies a previous self-killing of the British garrison which is really a gamey move that IMO should be removed. I wonder if it should be allowed land units to perform attacks with the aim of killing themselves just to deploy a brand new unit as replacement.

May be it would be good to set a minimum requirement of let's say, 4 steps of strength, for any type of land unit to be able to perform an attack.

[Plaid]

My guess is that the action you have mentioned implies a previous self-killing of the British garrison which is really a gamey move that IMO should be removed. I wonder if it should be allowed land units to perform attacks with the aim of killing themselves just to deploy a brand new unit as replacement.

May be it would be good to set a minimum requirement of let's say, 4 steps of strength, for any type of land unit to be able to perform an attack.

Sure, self killing was involved. Since we don't have "disband" button its probably acceptable abstraction.

Question is why British can deploy units in isolated core city. Seems like other nations can't.

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I don't recall exactly, but I think we programmed it so Britain need to lose both London and Liverpool to lose the ability to place reinforcements. So Liverpool functions as a third capital for Britain.

I think this was done to make Sealion more realistic.

[Plaid]

But city where troops were deployed was not connected to London or Liverpool. It was isolated completely.

[Metalogic]

But city where troops were deployed was not connected to London or Liverpool. It was isolated completely.

Is this I intended or a bug?

[Vokt]

Sure, self killing was involved. Since we don't have "disband" button its probably acceptable abstraction.

I see the disbanding thing more as a organizative choice of the player in those games that it's allowed. That would require the disbanded unit being at full strength and you getting PP's because of the eliminated unit. You should get no PP's from disbanding a garrison at 2 steps.

But this thing of purposedly self-killing units in order to make room to full strength ones, whatever the scenario that is done, is a gamey move.

[duncanr]

but almost historic for the Russians!

[Metalogic]

but almost historic for the Russians!

You're not far off there!

[fangotango]

Not allowing units below a certain strength to launch attacks seems an unjustified restriction given that it would affect many other situations in which a player may wish to make attacks with low-strength units. Seems simpler to restrict placing new units in cities with supply lower than 4.

[Metalogic]

Not allowing units below a certain strength to launch attacks seems an unjustified restriction given that it would affect many other situations in which a player may wish to make attacks with low-strength units. Seems simpler to restrict placing new units in cities with supply lower than 4.

I think the British can only do this if London is captured and Liverpool is not, as everywhere is supply 3 then and otherwise the UK could not build anywhere in the UK, so would be a walk-over. It might be an idea to exclude cities cut-off from Liverpool in this case, though

[Peter Stauffenberg]

I looked at the code and it will be quite a bit of coding to exclude cut off cities. That can introduce new bugs etc.

The situation described is not very important for the Axis conquest of the UK. If the Allied player wastes a vital reinforcement by sacrificing a depleted unit to place an new one in isolated Norwich then let him do it. That means one unit less for a main line in Scotland. The Axis can quickly dispose of the unit in Norwich.

It's not like the Axis will need the city for supply. They already have London.

[mupawa]

First, even low strength units can attack without it being a suicide move. I recall recently that I managed to push a 5 strength garrison back from Munich with a 2 strength para after bombing it to zero effectiveness. This allowed me to reinforce by rail with one more unit that I would have otherwise been able to, so I don't think a minimum strength for attack is the answer. I agree with stauffenburg about the utility of the move.

However, I think a disband button would be great. The germans and sovs did it all the time - Luftwaffe ground units were one result, naval combat units for the sovs were another. There may come a time when the germans want to reduce their fuel sucking units for example. I would think that the PP refund should be based on infantry values only. Also infantry units should be able to upgrade to mech units and mech units should be able to upgrade to armour. This was certainly the more common way to create these units during the war than building them from scratch. This would also reduce the frustration of how most of the time only infantry units end up getting promoted to guards units. Now you could upgrade said units to mech units then armour units if you wished.

Finally, there should be naval leaders. I know that Frederick Walker for example was instrumental in developing effective U-boat countermeasure tactics. I would think a 5-1-1 leader would be good to simulate him. A Doenitz leader might be good too. While he never went to sea for combat, his leadership was excellent. How bout a 5-1-0 for him? Such units could only deploy to sea units.

[duncanr]

I looked at the code and it will be quite a bit of coding to exclude cut off cities. That can introduce new bugs etc.

The situation described is not very important for the Axis conquest of the UK. If the Allied player wastes a vital reinforcement by sacrificing a depleted unit to place an new one in isolated Norwich then let him do it. That means one unit less for a main line in Scotland. The Axis can quickly dispose of the unit in Norwich.

It's not like the Axis will need the city for supply. They already have London.

in this case they didn't yet have London

I am not sure it really needs dealing with - Sealion was going slowly and Norwich held at 1 step which allowed the reinforcement

so very unusual set of circumstances - I wouldn't change it as the chance of bugs seems to high for the benefit

Sealion is now very very hard to execute