Blank slate game
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
Blank slate game
My friend and I play multiplayer on the iPad. We want to play a game where we start with only prestige and we each build our initial deployment units from our starting budget. Is there a way?
Re: Blank slate game
On a PC you could just take a map you like to play and edit it with the editor removing all the pre-placed units and add a certain amount of prestige to be able to shop anew. You would have possibly to add some/more deployment hexes too. I bet there is even such a map available already. Someone must have had the idea before.
The problem tho is i have no clue, if and how, you can do that on an IPad too. Gotta love the "Walled Garden" Apple build for you.
The problem tho is i have no clue, if and how, you can do that on an IPad too. Gotta love the "Walled Garden" Apple build for you.
Re: Blank slate game
How is it Apple's fault that there is no map editor for iPad? What Apple policy prevents Slitherine from making an iPad map editor or making an interface that allows the user to edit the data files that come with the iPad game? I think this has a lot more to do with the limitations of tablet UIs in general and Slitherine's unwillingness to re-implement certain aspects of the game for the tablet. Your crack at the "walled garden" is pretty far off the mark. Judging by the comments here, the iPad has significantly expanded the reach of this game.Tarrak wrote:On a PC you could just take a map you like to play and edit it with the editor removing all the pre-placed units and add a certain amount of prestige to be able to shop anew. You would have possibly to add some/more deployment hexes too. I bet there is even such a map available already. Someone must have had the idea before.
The problem tho is i have no clue, if and how, you can do that on an IPad too. Gotta love the "Walled Garden" Apple build for you.
Re: Blank slate game
The lack of the editor is not Apples fault yes but the inability of the user to edit the files certainly is. Without it you could just mod your IPad version like you could mod your PC version and at least simply download such scenario from somewhere. As i said i can't provide a link to it as i barely play multiplayer but i am quite sure someone had such idea before and a scenario like that already exist.
The Editor is probably really a side effect of the limitations in the tablet nature and UI. The UI would require a total redesign to be even nearly usable and even then i just don't see it working properly with the smaller screen and the UI limitations. While you could certainly solve all the problems involved somehow i can't imagine it being fun on a tablet to select units from long lists or to edit maps on small screen.
The Editor is probably really a side effect of the limitations in the tablet nature and UI. The UI would require a total redesign to be even nearly usable and even then i just don't see it working properly with the smaller screen and the UI limitations. While you could certainly solve all the problems involved somehow i can't imagine it being fun on a tablet to select units from long lists or to edit maps on small screen.
Re: Blank slate game
I agree with you regarding the appropriateness of trying to edit scenarios on a 10" touch screen. However, you are quite mistaken about the ability to mod the files. There are TONS of ways you could do that. One way is to have a much more detailed settings screen. Another way is to copy the files into iCloud drive, rather than run them from the app's own bundle, so that the files can ben opened from other apps, yes, even on the iPad itself, and modified. Even if the files were just copied to the sandbox, instead of the bundle, they could be exposed to iTunes and modified that way.Tarrak wrote:The lack of the editor is not Apples fault yes but the inability of the user to edit the files certainly is. Without it you could just mod your IPad version like you could mod your PC version and at least simply download such scenario from somewhere. As i said i can't provide a link to it as i barely play multiplayer but i am quite sure someone had such idea before and a scenario like that already exist.
The Editor is probably really a side effect of the limitations in the tablet nature and UI. The UI would require a total redesign to be even nearly usable and even then i just don't see it working properly with the smaller screen and the UI limitations. While you could certainly solve all the problems involved somehow i can't imagine it being fun on a tablet to select units from long lists or to edit maps on small screen.
There certainly are solutions that are possible, but it would require more iPad specific code. If that is deemed not worth it, so be it, but it has nothing to do with walled gardens.
Re: Blank slate game
I disagree here. It has to do with the walled garden. It's not possible to edit the files out of the box on IOS. On Windows, assuming i have admin rights which i can always get on my own device, i can edit every file i like. Is there a risk involved? Yes certainly there is but it gives you, as the owner, all the possibilities to do what you like with your computer.proline wrote:There certainly are solutions that are possible, but it would require more iPad specific code. If that is deemed not worth it, so be it, but it has nothing to do with walled gardens.
Yes you can implement some more or less convenient ways of modding but it all requires additional work on the developer side and some involve other specific problems like f.e. the need of permanent online connection if you work with cloud.
TLDR: Is the modding on IPad problem solvable? Yes it is. But would it be there in the first place if Apple would not block the owner of their own devices form editing any files they like? No, you could mod exactly the same way as on the PC.
Re: Blank slate game
Well, the simplest way to implement edibility from the developer perspective requires the developer to:
-write one line of code per file they want to designate as editable to move it from the app bundle to the sandbox
-one extra line of code on each launch to check try opening it from the sandbox first if it is still there and otherwise to make another copy
-click one checkbox called enableiTunesFileSharing
At that point, the user could grab the files from iTunes and mod them. This doesn't cause any new problems or require an internet connection, and it makes the process safer by ensuring there is a secure backup incase the would-be mod destroys or corrupts an important file. A similar process could do this for iCloud drive, though I'm not sure off the top of my head if an internet connection would be needed before the file could be opened in another app locally.
It this extra work for the developer? Yup, and a user inconvenience too. However, when you are talking about a developer who isn't willing to write two lines of code and click a checkbox in exchange for a safer platform and a safer modding process it somehow doesn't seem like you're the right person to complain.
As an aside, the minimum OS version for the iPad version of Panzer Corps is 4.3, even though the original iPad, which is only 1% of all iPads sold, runs iOS 5.1 and probably can't run PzC well anyways. All other iPads run iOS 9. There's really two possibilities here- one is this was done by a developer with a PC perspective whose goal was to support the oldest OS possible assuming that users are scattered evenly across all OS versions as they are on Windows. All this does on iOS is increase the chance of bugs and the amount of testing required (I doubt Slitherine has the resources to thoroughly test on iOS 4, 5, 6, 7, and8). The second possibility is that the app was largely written in some 3rd party game IDE with as little use as possible of Xcode and Objective C / Swift as well as the native APIs. That makes programming easier, but at the cost of being limited by whatever features that 3rd party software supports. Long story short, Slitherine does not behave in the manner of an experienced iOS developer. There's nothing wrong with that and as I've said before I'm very glad they ported PzC to the iPad, but my point remains that this problem is one that a more experienced iOS developer wouldn't have stumbled on.
-write one line of code per file they want to designate as editable to move it from the app bundle to the sandbox
-one extra line of code on each launch to check try opening it from the sandbox first if it is still there and otherwise to make another copy
-click one checkbox called enableiTunesFileSharing
At that point, the user could grab the files from iTunes and mod them. This doesn't cause any new problems or require an internet connection, and it makes the process safer by ensuring there is a secure backup incase the would-be mod destroys or corrupts an important file. A similar process could do this for iCloud drive, though I'm not sure off the top of my head if an internet connection would be needed before the file could be opened in another app locally.
It this extra work for the developer? Yup, and a user inconvenience too. However, when you are talking about a developer who isn't willing to write two lines of code and click a checkbox in exchange for a safer platform and a safer modding process it somehow doesn't seem like you're the right person to complain.
As an aside, the minimum OS version for the iPad version of Panzer Corps is 4.3, even though the original iPad, which is only 1% of all iPads sold, runs iOS 5.1 and probably can't run PzC well anyways. All other iPads run iOS 9. There's really two possibilities here- one is this was done by a developer with a PC perspective whose goal was to support the oldest OS possible assuming that users are scattered evenly across all OS versions as they are on Windows. All this does on iOS is increase the chance of bugs and the amount of testing required (I doubt Slitherine has the resources to thoroughly test on iOS 4, 5, 6, 7, and8). The second possibility is that the app was largely written in some 3rd party game IDE with as little use as possible of Xcode and Objective C / Swift as well as the native APIs. That makes programming easier, but at the cost of being limited by whatever features that 3rd party software supports. Long story short, Slitherine does not behave in the manner of an experienced iOS developer. There's nothing wrong with that and as I've said before I'm very glad they ported PzC to the iPad, but my point remains that this problem is one that a more experienced iOS developer wouldn't have stumbled on.
Re: Blank slate game
With that i can mostly agree. Only bit i want to add is: you make it sounds really easy to code the file exchange bits. I can't judge that as even being software developer myself i have no IOS experience but there are sometimes problems involved on ports between different OS one can't forsee and that within the present system they may cause real headache. Especially as PC wasn't really written with a port to IOS in mind.
Re: Blank slate game
Fair enough. Trade-offs do happen when you make something cross-platform. Optimizing for one platform vs. maintaining a common code base. I don't know what IDE PzC uses so I don't know what the challenges are. I can say for sure that in a native game this would be as easy as I suggest.