Scenario Playtesting - A&A 1939

[Cataphract88]

Thanks for updating.

[skyfox122]

Q3 around turn 32 - Naval combat in the Med. near Suez - I attacked a Light Cruiser (range 2) with a Battleship (range 3) - the Light Cruiser returned fire killed 1 or 2 points. How can it do so when I attacked out of range??

Comment for Spain\Portugal - if Powers status changed - I believe no unit except a basic Infantry unit should be allowed to be built. Even then I would probably limit it to Spain only (due its already basically at war fighting rebels) - this would help to stop the back door easy taking of all cities while fighting Portugal that I experienced.

Also - Russia - I think the strong points should vary in strength - based on location\strategic importance. Example: instead of almost all 10's - strong points in route to Moscow 10'-12's - Stalingrad 8-10's - Leningrad 8-10's etc....
Plus - I would add some more Conscripts to initial semi-forward area's not to close but a few more. According to your notes now on Q5/6 - I understand units have been adjusted - will evaluate on new game with new version.

Love the scenario and its little surprises - keep up the good work! Also -major suggestion - next named unit should be CmdrFoster !!!!

[skyfox122]

Forgot to add to my previous message - last time I was having heart issue(s) with the game (fortunately resuscitated) this last twenty turns - my brain was freaking out!!! Due to the Spain\Portugal armies same size with the French ripping me a new one from the back door!! Thankfully the local mental heath center was open and I was able to get immediate shock therapy!! Thus - with heavy German para drop & air support - I was able to gradually wrestle control of Spain back from France and Portugal.

[DerLeiter]

Q3 around turn 32 - Naval combat in the Med. near Suez - I attacked a Light Cruiser (range 2) with a Battleship (range 3) - the Light Cruiser returned fire killed 1 or 2 points. How can it do so when I attacked out of range??

I've noticed that too, I can only assume that's a quirk because of the 'Heroes' reducing the naval ranges.

I believe no unit except a basic Infantry unit should be allowed to be built.

Just to clarify neither side can actually 'build' anything, you just get auxiliary forces that deploy within their territory -- mostly at first. I wanted to have the possibility of battles there, but not something that can overshadow the major campaigns. It seems to work fairly well now.

Also - Russia - I think the strong points should vary in strength - based on location\strategic importance.

I used strongpoints instead of conscripts so that the Russians couldn't charge forward with them, and having a hero reduce their movement to 0 had some interesting side effects. Either way they're just speed bumps except for the Maxim Gorky Fort and Brest Fortress which should require the siege artillery. Because you can't repair the structures, they're easily destroyed, and the strongpoints in particular seem to do little, I prefer to let the Soviets build their own mobile forces and gain auxiliary reinforcements.

That being said, some Fortifications at Moscow & Stalingrad might be useful, and the Brest Fort is in an odd location.

[skyfox122]

OK on all except the naval range - I moved my Battleship intentionally 3 hexes away so the Light Cruiser could not return fire - but it did - maybe a quirk due to ranges being altered in scenario??

[skyfox122]

Greece seems good - a nice balance of forces - it has played well - no recommended changes.
Africa - a lot of back and forth - but I feel the DAK was too easily dealt with - it is not off by much I think an addition tank and another infantry unit would balance it out. Or just one tank and a DAK air unit.

Optional: Scenario message telling me what a Great General I am would be nice!!!

[Pitemag]

Someone here who want's to try a game. password:AA1939

[skyfox122]

Play test Q3 - Madagascar airfield hex ownership was wrong when it went with the Axis powers after violated by the Allies. Do not know if fixed in Q6. Hex # 98,129

Q3 - Spain - not activated by Axis or Allies -but Italian Infantry & Arty. have entered Spain and Attacked Gibraltar wiping it out. Is this normal for Italian units to be able enter Spain without triggering a response??

[DerLeiter]

AA1939 Ausf Q7

• Fixed flag issue in Norway; Tromso was feeling rather patriotic.
• If Turkey joins the Axis, its territories automatically become owned by 'Red Team'.
• Removed French flags from Madagascar; Vichy France ones will appear when/if appropriate.
• Spain remains Neutral until either violated or the very small chance they side with Axis -- previously it opened up when France was conquered.
• Spanish border slightly altered.
• Instead of being 12/10 strength & 250 XP, regular SS infantry/tanks are now 12/12 strength.
• Malta enlarged.
• Commander Foster added.

Q3 - Spain - not activated by Axis or Allies -but Italian Infantry & Arty. have entered Spain and Attacked Gibraltar wiping it out. Is this normal for Italian units to be able enter Spain without triggering a response??

Previously the Axis could enter Spain whenever they wished, as Spain I decided to have the country as an Axis-Aligned neutral power. However, you can no longer enter Spain unless they mobilize for war. This was in part to prevent that sort of silliness, as Gibraltar was rather easy to take out. I may consider it for a later version, but at this time I have no plans for Spain to join the Allied side; it's balanced as is and will take a lot of work and checking to make Spain able to side either way.

[skyfox122]

Q3 turn 41 play test: After further game play doing both sides - I withdraw my recommendation of additional 1 or 2 units for the DAK force - seems it was more of a tactics chosen issue.
Can you answer this: paid to have a Turkish Infantry unit convert into a German Infantry (both the plain basic infantry) noticed no change even though it charged the full prestige (must have been a Coke machine in disguise - no Coke either)!! Or maybe both were a mirage (since it was in the desert)!!

I have started a Q6 play test - just 4 turns in so far. Still disappointed by deployment of German troops for Polish invasion - only seemed slightly better than Q3. Just one of my German units was close enough to attack a Polish unit - mutes the suppression set on Polish units on turn 1 to no advantage - what should be a bang is a whimper.

[DerLeiter]

Future Thoughts

• River in (66,33) fixed for Q8 (yet to be released, as that's the only change so far).
• I'm somewhat feeling that North Africa should be toned down a little on both sides.
• Debating on the same % chance of allowing Spain to go pro-Allied.
• Too many Axis ships?

... I withdraw my recommendation of additional 1 or 2 units for the DAK force - seems it was more of a tactics chosen issue.

It's difficult sometimes to determine if it was randomness, tactics, or just an imbalance in this game. I've usually found that NA swings back and forth a fair amount, though it depends on how much either side is reinforcing there as well. I just wonder if it's too much stuff.

Can you answer this ...

The Wehrmacht Infantry have -1 ammo, but +1 initiative and +3 ground defence compared to the 'Turkish' (Yugoslavian) infantry. Since you're effectively issuing them all new equipment it's at full prestige cost unfortunately. When I've gotten I usually go with Grenadiers on Trucks if I can afford it, otherwise they're just cannon fodder.

Still disappointed by deployment of German troops for Polish invasion...

The Invasion of Poland is dragged out much longer than it should be (in my game turns it should be over in one turn) to keep it interesting. I've found that the first turn you should be able to knock out most of their airforce and decimate a few ground units -- though that depends a lot on their random placement as well. Most have a limited random range they deploy in, but almost half deploy anywhere in Poland. I've found using a fighter to scout the centre or south, and a destroyer along the coast ahead helps a lot to locate where they are so you can hammer them on turn 1.

Though I understand your disappointment there, I've found even if the majority of the Germans begin in the West it doesn't change things too much.

[skyfox122]

Africa - my feeling is to leave it as is - due to the fact that I have been able to be successful as the Allied or Axis player - this to me shows it has balance. Also toning it down: since it has a good balance now - you would need to be very careful in - toning it down without upsetting the current balance. It does at times seem big - but I think it is due to its shear size.

On Spain - you like or want to have some historical reference in the game - so I would leave the pro Axis influence - to add pro Allied would just weaken the historical feel more.

I feel Axis ships should stay as is - yes they have many more than normal - but this game is not designed to be closely related to realism or it would need a major revamp.
Currently the naval balance - I feel is just right - allowing for frequent engagements along with surprise encounters where you go " oh s_ _t " and scramble to see how you can counter what you just found. To weaken it would lower encounters and after all the ocean for the most part is the largest part of the game.

[DerLeiter]

Africa - my feeling is to leave it as is...

I've found Africa has the biggest variation -- it could end up being a massive battle stretching from Benghazi to the Sahara, or just small skirmishes. I have found as well that yes it seems either side can win, it just depends on how much they put into it. I still would like to think about reducing the scale a bit, but it's a low priority.

Also I'm curious if in anyone's games any major battles have taken place in South Africa? The most I've had is some minor Italian & Vichy skirmishes.

On Spain... I would leave the pro Axis influence.

I suppose after having made it much more difficult to be involved this is fine. I don't mind not having to put all that effort into it either.

I feel Axis ships should stay as is - yes they have many more than normal - but this game is not designed to be closely related to realism or it would need a major revamp.

It's not a realism factor, just that the Axis have very strong local superiority. I need more input from late war games and how it goes though before I'll do anything on it. The Axis seem to have an upper hand unless the Allies focus on destroying their fleet with strategic bombers and such, but once the US enters the war it may even things up enough anyway.

Another possibility is making more of the Axis ships start away from their home territories out on the various map edges.


Also embarrassingly, in a new game I've just had two Berlin hexes captured by the Polish resistance. Oops.

[skyfox122]

The German & British ships I don't find to be a problem. I have just build two bombers either as a Brit or German and attacked them. The only naval problem I have run into is controlling the subs - mainly German subs. I never seem to have enough tactical air units on the Brits side.
Other wise I like what is - I have had a lot of fun with the navies of both sides. I always seem to be able or have a mission for them - anti-sub - anti-ship - bombardment is a big one for me. I am always when no other target in the area - I go for destroying fortifications etc.... Thereby never a dull moment - my ships are always going to battle stations!!!
The US enter is big and I like it!! Its the way the US should come into the war!

Yes, as Hitler - I would have you shot twice and called it a suicide!! Berlin hexes to fall to the Poles - maybe one I could excuse. I have always kept a good ground unit (one) in each of my games located in a hex close to the Poland side just for such a possibility. I guess I just have a fear of being shot by the SS.

[skyfox122]

Q. 1. Axis minor powers - why are the airfields marked as C's to retain possession - of the country?

Q. 2. Sweden - was conquered before Norway in both Q3 & Q6 version. However - no notification of any advantage for doing so - no reward like an extra two tanks since iron ore secured or two new unit slots - something??

Also, in game statement Operation Fall Gelb - there is a word listed as: granding was it meant to be granting?

I also would like to mention - the game Aux. units seem to be the main power: What I'm trying to say is; almost all cities are axis minors (seems as if there are just not enough German core units)? It came into play when conquering Russia and Africa - I could not build core German units without having to send them from cities that were 2-3 turns from front lines usually. Since they are usually better than Axis minor units - they are normally in combat out side of the cities.

Current game just finished turn 50. Russia fell on turn 45.

Even with the current strong USA entry - I have found it very hard to establish any beachhead. We have been fighting for air control ever since I have gotten close to the French coast. Combat ships have done some damage thru bombardment - but have been unable to focus on shore batteries - due to the need, to eliminate AA along the coast which is hitting my air thus reducing my effectiveness to eliminate German air.
However - with my WW1 experience I have been able to keep both sides in a stalemate in the air. The German has been able to damage enough transports & combat ships to where I currently had to pull back from a beach assault. While fighting fighters bombers were able to play a game of space invaders with my transports.

The fight goes on!!

[DerLeiter]

Q. 1. Axis minor powers - why are the airfields marked as C's to retain possession - of the country?

The Romanian (A), Bulgarian (B), Slovakian (A), and Hungarian (C) cities and airfields are so marked so you can easily see which are their original cities as later on it can be easy to miss them. Hovering over the tile also gives the original owner's name in brackets. Both were also so my father who has multiple sight problems could more easily see which was what. On a side note, just noticed some Romanian cities weren't marked so fixed that.

Sweden - was conquered before Norway in both Q3 & Q6 version. However - no notification of any advantage for doing so - no reward like an extra two tanks since iron ore secured or two new unit slots - something??

On turn 5 it tells you for holding Sweden you can recruit the SS-Nordland units later on. There's a few other possible bonus units thare are unmentioned as well. However there is no prestige bonus; that is part of holding Norway to secure the iron ore route from Sweden to Germany.

Also, in game statement Operation Fall Gelb - there is a word listed as: granding was it meant to be granting?

Nope! First person to mention it to me too. I appreciate catching that, far too often I just automatically skip them now.,

I also would like to mention - the game Aux. units seem to be the main power..

It's a possibility; I could cut out some of the axis minors and add in either more core unit slots or more German auxiliary units closer to June '41. They're like that right now partially just to use them in numbers, partially to force the Axis to use a variety of units that normally would never see play, and lastly just to emphasize that it really wasn't just the Germans and a 'handful' of minors attacking Russia (though yes, it's heavily overemphasized here).
Mostly though it's honestly just for some variety; I get tired of seeing walls of KVs, Tigers, whatever. Since you can't upgrade the majority of axis minor units, you're stuck with what you get and to me that makes it more interesting.

For North Africa you had to use the same tactic of making sure you take a city or two with German forces, but I'm going to switch a few Italian cities to German when the DAK arrives.

Even with the current strong USA entry - I have found it very hard to establish any beachhead.

It's hard to say without knowing what was going on there. I've found in the games that have gone that far it's difficult and you'll take losses, but the sheer number of US units means the Germans get overwhelmed. Though in those cases Russia has still been in the picture to divide the Axis attention. Some deception goes a long way too; looking like you're heading through Gibraltor for Spain or north to Norway helps, as do paratroopers dropping in and causing disruption behind their lines. I will say though it's much easier if Spain is invaded.


In other news, the curious case of the SS-Panther A's coming out far too early has been fixed.

[skyfox122]

Thank you for the quick reply (a sheepish grin & the light bulb comes on). I now remember reading the SS-Nordland in game message - duh.

I agree - after the DAK comes in - making a few cities German would be reasonable.

Interesting reason(s) for the minor powers to be played as is - not a bad idea. I was forced in Russia to have a German unit specially to take a city and had to wait for the unit to get there - thus the question.

France's border was occupied all along the coast except a few squares (3-4) toward the edge of Spain. The North Sea Area was heavy with U-boats - well controlled by the Kraut! Channel dash just not practical with the heavy shore guns - along with slow transports. The Fw190's were playing splat with my fighters - took about 5 turns for me to get the edge enough for him to start staying close to his 88 umbrella (even that was after me making priority to kill the 88's over 3 turns).
On turn 52 now will see about hitting the beaches again.

[Cataphract88]

DerLeiter,

Why is the Bismarck shown as a battle-cruiser rather than a battleship?

[DerLeiter]

Thank you for the quick reply... I now remember reading the SS-Nordland in game message - duh.

No worries, there's a LOT to keep track of so it's easy to miss something, heck I had to double check to make sure it actually did mention the SS-Nordland. Heck too many times I found making one "simple change" caused soo many unforeseen problems. Once one little change to Poland broke the game by making it so that neither the Russian border nor the Western European ones came down. Because of that Africa never opened up.. and so on.

I agree - after the DAK comes in - making a few cities German would be reasonable.

Added to the DAK message about a new Generalleutnant setting up in Tripoli; hexes there convert to German.

Interesting reason(s) for the minor powers to be played as is - not a bad idea.

It's something I've gone back and forth a bit on, but in the end I think I like having it this way. It's minor, but you can at least still upgrade German units in hexes captured by your allies.

France's border was occupied all along the coast except a few squares (3-4) toward the edge of Spain...

Ouch, seems like things have gone very well for Germany in that game I can see how that would be difficult to make a proper landing. I would have avoided that and gone for somewhere more vulnerable if possible. Maybe sent a paratrooper to take a Spanish port and activate them? Was it possibly to go north over England, or even at worst South and drive through Africa?

I did have a similar game where I annihilated his D-Day force before it even got close to the shores; a few made it too England and maybe a quarter landed in Spain but were crushed pretty quickly. That game had spriraled way out of control though; the Royal Navy and RAF were obliterated, the Kriegsmarine and Regia Marina had linked up and owned the Atlantic; any plane spotted over England was immediately shot down... etc etc. Though I barely got Russia in that game, and had lost control of Africa and Iraq

Why is the Bismarck shown as a battle-cruiser rather than a battleship?

No idea, I've fixed that for Q8. Double checked the Tirpitz and it was a battleship so not sure how that happened. Thanks for catching that!

[skyfox122]

Q. Why don't you make a city in England - American controlled (When the main American force shows up)? I wanted to build an American fighter in England but couldn't. Plus, a city would allow you to build some replacement infantry for those lost in the transports. It is after all historical too.