Paratroopers and efficiency

[Longasc]

Paratroopers are, when not used as elite frontline Infantry, meant to be dropped behind enemy lines and secure key objectives.

In many war movies you hear the line, I think in the Bridge Too Far or in the Longest Day it's General Model, that they get weaker quickly without supply while the defenders get stronger.

The thing with OOBPac Paras is, they are "supply resilient" or resistant, their effiency goes down lower.

Yet... in practice flying 2-3 turns behind enemy lines and dropping the paratroopers, they seem to drop as wet bags with near zero efficiency. Dunno if this is always the case, I did it once to capture Clarke Airfield early in the Japanese Campaign.

What are your experiences with Paratroopers deploying behind enemy lines in OOBPac? Cannot help, mine dropped already in desolate effiency states and never recovered.

[Horst]

The only feasible strategy with paras seems to capture a supply point right after they drop. It is still critical to wait until the supply point triggers (2-3 turns) though.
Scenario 2 in the Jap campaign is a good example where you can use paratroopers to capture the two bridges. I haven’t played out all possibilities there, but it’s hardly possibly to endure counter-attacks, especially from the damn Stuart tanks, if you don’t hurry with your regular ground units from the north. Purchasing more tanks instead to breakthrough possibly works better there.

I really don’t like the fast efficiency drop, not necessarily only of paratroopers, although I agree that paras shouldn’t be supply-immune like the commandos, as they fight like a large infantry unit and not like the dirty dozen. I’m all for a delay of 2-3 turns until the efficiency drops slowly by 1 per turn or a total re-ruling of the system.

This is not especially about paratroopers, but in general how the supply system works. I wonder how Vietnam patrols for several days are supposed to work with this system if units are dropped by helicopter behind enemy lines.
There have also been enough historical occasions during WW2 where encircled troops bravely defended their points until backup arrived or they could breakthrough to their own lines again. This is not really possible with the current rules here as the efficiency drop is too fast. It’s currently more designed for a fast-paced RTS style to quickly cut through encircled units.
Well, maybe no drop but a slow recovery of only 1 point would work too if cut-off units are idle. Scrounging enemy weapons, ammunition, food and fuel has always been done in the wars to survive longer than expected.
I just hope that we finally get more rules to define in the game files to adjust the game to our likening.

[Longasc]

Yeah, this is a lot about the supply system mechanics. Paratroopers are just the unit most affected by it in their intended role.

There is indeed no way for them or other units that are not totally supply immune to operate behind enemy lines for more than 1-2 turns. So the scenario design must provide them with pre-placed supply points they can easily capture. That's not really good.

There must be some thought put into this, right now it is not as important as we are more fighting on Islands in "Marine" territory. But for the future its nevertheless a concern.
I came only up with some bandaids, like making Paratroopers supply immune for 2-3 turns after a jump or allowing air supply drops. All of this has a bandaid character, just some ideas.

I also used rather tanks in the scenario you mentioned, my experiments with Paratroopers were extremely frustrating. They are superb Infantry, but don't ever dare to use them as Paratroopers. Because that just doesn't work well right now.

[rezaf]

My idea, suggested elsewhere, was to give paras a "timer" akin to that of aircraft.
Let's say 5 turns, reset when doing nothing for a turn in supply ... or something like that.

Anyway, the idea would be that paras could operate at full efficiency for 5 turns - enought to close in on a defended objective, capture it and defend it until it can provide supplies on it's own.

In the game as-is, I ended up using my paras as Stormtroopers. There's nary an opportunity to use them effectively in their "natual role" under the current ruleset, as Longsc's analogy of dropped wet bags is fitting indeed.

While developments on the game appear to proceed at glacial pace, I'm optimistic that many of the games small nagging issues - such as this one - will eventually be adressed.
_____
rezaf

[Horst]

Yep, even a single turn delay after the jump to recover the initial loss of 3 points would help, although paras often have no time to rest when plenty defending units, especially fast tanks, are nearby to steamroller over them.

[InDisguise]

I found a sort-of-doable use for them.

You know those tough defensive lines that the AI likes so much? Often behind rivers? When assaulting those, I sometimes like to drop my Paratroopers right behind their line, hit their artillery or other units in the back (since paras can attack right after landing) and then connect the territories with units from the front.

Of course you need a bit of a feeling for this. Hit them not hard enough, and your paras are left standing there with their pants down. And even if it succeeds, they are fairly disorganized, probably the closest thing to the enemy, and fairly likely to be hit by a (perhaps armored) counterattack.

[Decaff]

At any rate the paras efficiency should last at least until supply runs out. Supply should hold out for at least 3-5 turns with heavy fighting. Think about battles like Bastogne with the 101st. They should be able to be cut off for a while before they run out of supply and, efficiency should hold until supply runs out.

And please add Para-Marines!!

[InDisguise]

Oh, also, another thing! Yesterday I landed two american Airborne in a field, not on a supply source. One was already damaged by a fighter attack.
After landing, I could repair them right away, despite being cut off from supply. Is this by design, some part of the mechanism I missed? Or just a little bug?

[TDefender]

Completely agree with the OP. Paratroopers should get a huge efficiency bonus or much less penalty when out of supply...

[jslit]

I found the immediate penalty to efficiency and especially movement a bit too harsh the times my units got cut off.

How about this?

No initial loss of efficiency and movement, just inability to increase efficiency until supply is reestablished.

Mechanized units suffer efficiency loss from movement and increased efficiency loss from combat.
Non-paratrooper infantry suffer increased efficiency loss from combat.
Paratroopers suffer normal efficiency loss from combat.
Maybe add a slow loss of efficiency each turn even if the unit is idle.