OK, so i'm about to fight the Redux battle after crushing the pinkos to dust in Berlin. I managed to destroy every last one of them while losing a couple of my core units.
Looking at the map I'm thinking I'll try to defend the double airfield and HQ bunker and let them have the rest at first and crush them with a defensive wall.
Any advice generals?
Here's what I've got:
Prestige: 8894 (all units are maxed out on size already IE 15 @ 5 star)
Tanks 20:
King Tigers x13: 9 x 5(3 SE) star, 2 x 2 star, 2 x 1 star (1 SE)
Maus x 2: 1 x 2 star SE, 1 x 1 star
JagdTiger x 2: 1 x 3 star, 1 x 2 star
JagdPanther x 3: 1 x 5 star, 1 x 4 star, 1 x 3 star
Infantry 12:
Grenadier x 2: 2 x 5 star SE
Infantry x 7: 6 x 5 star, 1 x 4 star
Fallschirm x 1: 1 x 3 star
Gebirgs x 1: 1 x 3 star
Brucken x 1: 1 x 2 star
Artillery 9 (lost 2 of my core here in Berlin:
Hummel x 3 3 x 5 star
SU-122 x 1 1 x 5 star
Wurfrahmen 40 1 x 5 star
21/18 x 1 1 x 5 star
17/18 x 3 3 x 5 star
Luftwaffe 10:
ME 262 x 5: 5 x 5 star
ME 410A x 3: 1 x 5 star, 1 x 3 star, 1 x 2 star
FW190G x 2: 2 x 5 star
AA 2:
12.8 Flak x 1: 1 x 4 star
Ostwind x 1: 1 x 4 star
Recon 3:
3 various NO star Man, I just can't keep these boys alive. Too aggressive with them maybe?
So, do i have a shot at DV? What's he gunna throw at me?
Berlin Redux
Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design
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TigerJager
- Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:40 pm
Re: Berlin Redux
At first glance your core seems adequate to the task. The main thing is to get a feel for how many units you need to hold the island in the center. It is pretty easy to defend because of the water, the only issue being artillery attacks over time and the lack of space on the island for things like reserves and AA. Send everything else south, then east, then north to kill the generals. About half your force can accomplish this. There are few units attacking from the south as you will clear most of them out on your southward breakout, so it only takes a handful of units to hold an airfield there (so you don't lose all your airfields). If your mobile force moves fast, you can end it well before all the AI's units are send to attack you. Overall, not as hard as the prior Berlin mission.
Re: Berlin Redux
Last time I did this on FM I ran south with 2 Maus, 1KT, 1JT and 1 Ferdi, 2 gren and 2 SP arty; all 5*. Moved 4 air south, including my 5* HE-177, once I took the south airfield. As Pro said I killed all the generals before the AI really attacked in the south. You can expect full 5 star everything hitting you. I had no recon just a couple units with recon heroes. I find recon next to useless and far too fragile.
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wargovichr
- Sergeant - 7.5 cm FK 16 nA
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:11 am
Re: Berlin Redux
You certainly have the pick of units....
A stretched out defense will fail.
Again, form a tight defensive box on an "island" forcing Russian to attack on river hexes. **Make this island as compact as possible** to maximize efficient fighter cover along with a few AA. Tank on clear, infantry on terrain, artillery backup, of course. Station Maus where they won't have to move much. Keep small mobile counterattack tank units to beat back assaults, finish off attackers, keeping the river defensive line intact all around, and allowing filling in holes and/or for repair to battered units.You WILL need to maintain at least **ONE airfield** and doggedly defend it. A Brucken unit, if you can spare, helps allow access across rivers to help mobile defense---back and forth to island/airfield.
I suggest crushing the first Russian attack...but...just when you think its safe to go hunt the Russian tank leaders the next wave of Russian attacks will hit!
I personally would add a fighter or two more and/or AA and maybe just one tac bomber--a JU87G to hit the tank leaders...your fighters will be VERY busy.
You will have had to form your hunter kampfgruppe and START search to head south in between Russian mass attacks due to time restraints, leaving enough behind to defeat 2nd attack, then really get going on search. Tiger and Panther/Jagdpanther faster/mobile/flexibility for kampfgruppe, Kingtiger as necessary, mobile artillery.
A stretched out defense will fail.
Again, form a tight defensive box on an "island" forcing Russian to attack on river hexes. **Make this island as compact as possible** to maximize efficient fighter cover along with a few AA. Tank on clear, infantry on terrain, artillery backup, of course. Station Maus where they won't have to move much. Keep small mobile counterattack tank units to beat back assaults, finish off attackers, keeping the river defensive line intact all around, and allowing filling in holes and/or for repair to battered units.You WILL need to maintain at least **ONE airfield** and doggedly defend it. A Brucken unit, if you can spare, helps allow access across rivers to help mobile defense---back and forth to island/airfield.
I suggest crushing the first Russian attack...but...just when you think its safe to go hunt the Russian tank leaders the next wave of Russian attacks will hit!
I personally would add a fighter or two more and/or AA and maybe just one tac bomber--a JU87G to hit the tank leaders...your fighters will be VERY busy.
You will have had to form your hunter kampfgruppe and START search to head south in between Russian mass attacks due to time restraints, leaving enough behind to defeat 2nd attack, then really get going on search. Tiger and Panther/Jagdpanther faster/mobile/flexibility for kampfgruppe, Kingtiger as necessary, mobile artillery.
Re: Berlin Redux
You have far too much infantry, too little arty, and inadequate tactical air striking power.
I run in Berlin and Berlin Redux:
21 core tanks/TDs
6 fighters + 1 SE usually 2 ME 262s, 2 Dora 190s, 2 a model 190s for range.
4 Stuka G models + 1 Lent 410, upgraded to 190G if I have prestige too, depends upon if playing Rommel or FM
Total 11 core air and 1 SE
8 Field Artillery
4 mobile field artillery + 4 captured Su122s
Total 16 artillery
7/8 SE tanks depending if you get an SE in the first round of '45 before SE Fighter fills your limit.
so 7 or 8 SE tanks
2 infantry
2 128 FLaKs
That should add up to about the limit w/SE units factored. The 410s don't hit hard enough. Defending any terrain outside the same river/canal line is not wise, except the small area in the NW above the airfield you hold.
I have never failed to get a DV on Berlin or Berlin Redux this way on many, may tries from Field Marshall to Rommel level.
I run in Berlin and Berlin Redux:
21 core tanks/TDs
6 fighters + 1 SE usually 2 ME 262s, 2 Dora 190s, 2 a model 190s for range.
4 Stuka G models + 1 Lent 410, upgraded to 190G if I have prestige too, depends upon if playing Rommel or FM
Total 11 core air and 1 SE
8 Field Artillery
4 mobile field artillery + 4 captured Su122s
Total 16 artillery
7/8 SE tanks depending if you get an SE in the first round of '45 before SE Fighter fills your limit.
so 7 or 8 SE tanks
2 infantry
2 128 FLaKs
That should add up to about the limit w/SE units factored. The 410s don't hit hard enough. Defending any terrain outside the same river/canal line is not wise, except the small area in the NW above the airfield you hold.
I have never failed to get a DV on Berlin or Berlin Redux this way on many, may tries from Field Marshall to Rommel level.
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TigerJager
- Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:40 pm
Re: Berlin Redux
Kamerer,
That's a great force you have there! It does look like our make ups are pretty similar though with the two main differences being Artillery & SU-122's. I've never been given more than 1 SU-122 in any campaign. I do wish I had more of those!
Artillery was the one area I was worried about and am seriously considering adding a couple more and maybe upgrading some. I had 11 and that was just barely enough. I was constantly shifting them around in a mobile role. Now only 9.
I have 20 tanks/TD's to your 21, 10 Air to your 11-12, we each have 2 Flak, Artillery 9 (I did just lose 2 5* in Berlin) to 16, Infantry... ok we're far apart here! I've got 12 to your 2 LOL.
I've had really good success with the Infantry. In cities they really stone walled the Russian armor when backed by good artillery and placed next to Tiger II's.
I like the 410A's. I use them in a support role picking off any small remnants left after my ME262's hit and after I get control of the air (usually in about 4-5 turns) and later in the game to pick off the Artillery and "soft" units. Until then I keep them tight with my Swallows. Oh, and early on I tend to keep them near my lines close to the AA as bait. This tends to suck enemy Air units in where I can overwhelm them numerically with combined Fighter/TAC fighter/AA.
Never had any luck with Stuka's after mid-war at all. They suffer too many loses striking most later tanks, usually losing 2-3 per strike, and are useless VS Air units. So, much of the time they sit idle waiting for a target almost afraid to attack.
That's a great force you have there! It does look like our make ups are pretty similar though with the two main differences being Artillery & SU-122's. I've never been given more than 1 SU-122 in any campaign. I do wish I had more of those!
Artillery was the one area I was worried about and am seriously considering adding a couple more and maybe upgrading some. I had 11 and that was just barely enough. I was constantly shifting them around in a mobile role. Now only 9.
I have 20 tanks/TD's to your 21, 10 Air to your 11-12, we each have 2 Flak, Artillery 9 (I did just lose 2 5* in Berlin) to 16, Infantry... ok we're far apart here! I've got 12 to your 2 LOL.
I've had really good success with the Infantry. In cities they really stone walled the Russian armor when backed by good artillery and placed next to Tiger II's.
I like the 410A's. I use them in a support role picking off any small remnants left after my ME262's hit and after I get control of the air (usually in about 4-5 turns) and later in the game to pick off the Artillery and "soft" units. Until then I keep them tight with my Swallows. Oh, and early on I tend to keep them near my lines close to the AA as bait. This tends to suck enemy Air units in where I can overwhelm them numerically with combined Fighter/TAC fighter/AA.
Never had any luck with Stuka's after mid-war at all. They suffer too many loses striking most later tanks, usually losing 2-3 per strike, and are useless VS Air units. So, much of the time they sit idle waiting for a target almost afraid to attack.
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TigerJager
- Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:40 pm
Re: Berlin Redux
Thanks for all the advise guys! I think one of the hardest part of this game is simply deployment. Since, at the start of a game, you are TOTALLY freakin' blind. I mean really? You can place a unit and not know that there is an enemy in the adjacent hex until after you start? ACK!
I big difference I'm noticing is I don't seem to be getting all the SE & freebie units. Only 1 SU-122 per campaign but others get 4? Also, I've never seen an SE Air unit before. Only tanks (no TD's) and infantry for SE.
Am I missing something? I mostly get DV's and often don't leave a single enemy unit on the board.
Odin! Send me some heroes!
I big difference I'm noticing is I don't seem to be getting all the SE & freebie units. Only 1 SU-122 per campaign but others get 4? Also, I've never seen an SE Air unit before. Only tanks (no TD's) and infantry for SE.
Am I missing something? I mostly get DV's and often don't leave a single enemy unit on the board.
Odin! Send me some heroes!
Re: Berlin Redux
Getting the air game just right is the key to rocking '44 and '45.
You never, never send a Stuka out w/o a fighter escort. Then they never get attacked. Nothing else has the anti-armor punch of G model Stuka. Gotta have 'em, gotta protect 'em. 410s are useless unless the hero'd up "Lent."
You can pick up 4 Su-122s in '44 and '45 playing aggressively and capturing outlying 'villes. I can do this even on Rommel with 10/11 strength units, just have to focus and play with good arty back-up and push when they weaken near the end of scenarios.
Atillery is key in Berlin as it will dissuade any infantry unit from attacking a Panzer in a city hex (facing a river/canal hex), then you can clobber them on the river lines on the next turn.
Berlin and Berlin Redux are by far the two most demanding scenarios of all Panzer Corps of any DLC; and by far the most rewarding to win. Do it!
If you do not understand terrain/close combat mechanics, you need to open the library/manual and understand how that works.
You never, never send a Stuka out w/o a fighter escort. Then they never get attacked. Nothing else has the anti-armor punch of G model Stuka. Gotta have 'em, gotta protect 'em. 410s are useless unless the hero'd up "Lent."
You can pick up 4 Su-122s in '44 and '45 playing aggressively and capturing outlying 'villes. I can do this even on Rommel with 10/11 strength units, just have to focus and play with good arty back-up and push when they weaken near the end of scenarios.
Atillery is key in Berlin as it will dissuade any infantry unit from attacking a Panzer in a city hex (facing a river/canal hex), then you can clobber them on the river lines on the next turn.
Berlin and Berlin Redux are by far the two most demanding scenarios of all Panzer Corps of any DLC; and by far the most rewarding to win. Do it!
If you do not understand terrain/close combat mechanics, you need to open the library/manual and understand how that works.
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TigerJager
- Private First Class - Wehrmacht Inf
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:40 pm
Re: Berlin Redux
This was a total disappointment. Far too easy to just move south & follow the road up. My defensive ring was never seriously challenged. Lost just 2 units, one infantry and one 1* Maus.
Total control of the air by turn 4.
I defended the 2 southern airfields with 6 infantry, 1 Jagdpanther, 1 Hummel & 1 1/2 track rocket battery. With some air support they beat back the russian tanks using the city hexes.
By turn 16 it was over, but I left the last general (reduced to 4) until turn 24 and toyed with him and finished off most of the attackers, bought a couple of recon and gained some prestige by taking undefended towns.
Total control of the air by turn 4.
I defended the 2 southern airfields with 6 infantry, 1 Jagdpanther, 1 Hummel & 1 1/2 track rocket battery. With some air support they beat back the russian tanks using the city hexes.
By turn 16 it was over, but I left the last general (reduced to 4) until turn 24 and toyed with him and finished off most of the attackers, bought a couple of recon and gained some prestige by taking undefended towns.