The Tao of Mongols

[Amra]

Following a disscussion in the rules section , I thought this thread might be useful to pool our knowledge of specifically Mongol doctrine .

I am NO expert of these rules but have loved (and therefore studied ) the Mongols since 6th Ed . I am hopeful these rules will let me run the army in a historical way and win !

OK Let me throw some thoughts out to start the chat , please note I am using the Ilkhanid list .

Mongols need more LH than Cv . LH are flocks of stinging sparrows who can change direction , Cv get caught .

The LH ideally are in 6 per BG , allowing them to survive counter fire better .

I set the tempo and rarely allow one LH unit ( or Cv) to face off one enemy unit in a fire fight . I wait and move the two units in to range together .

LB have no PoA vs LH, something the LB heavy armies don't believe . Therefore put yr Gen with yr forward deployed LH and rush them to a bow unit you can isolate (often the flank ) . As early as possible both units mass fire on the Bw (making it split fire ) , Gen goes back to bring up the Heavies . If yr lucky you have a 4 base eneny BG as your target .


The only Mongol Cv I take are Best ,Ar,Superior (1 BG ) - note the LB have no advantage against you if yr in one line .

Both the LH and LH /Cv BGs are rushed forward to engage with their Gens .

I take Lancers for strike . A BG of Kurds and one of Kn (drilled if I have the points ) . The Gens double back to bring them forward , they wait for the LH shooting to work and charge .

Ambush and flank marches are vital because they make the army feel "tricksy" . I always look for ways the army can do the unexpected and maintain the initiative . This includes massing on one flank , getting him to drop stakes and then zooming to elsewhere .

The flank march is never more than a Gen and 4 of the cheapest LH . Their sole on-table aim is the baggage ( 2 VP right there ).

I take the Kurd bow foot both for amushes and to run up out on the flank and add fire . As I am massing fire the opponent is too busy to target them effectively and because they cant charge they get ignored .

It important to set traps , a flank march where you have an ambush so troops who react to the threat of the flank march are targeted by the ambush .

I have thoughts on Art , but this is plenty for now .

None of this is Gospel , all is a work in progress . Contrbute and lets raise high the Yak Tail banner !!

[carlos]

I assume this is the doctrine for the Ilkhanids, right? Unfortunately I can't get over the fact that they can't get Steppes! But Agricultural is okay if you take lots of LH which is what you advocate anyway.

The only real issue I have w/ your doctrine is that lots of LH by themselves have a hard time getting a result in 3 hours and a bit of gameplay, which is where having a few more Cv helps. Good effort though, I will use it in my games.

[SirGarnet]

Nice to have a thread on this topic. I got some useful feedback on the IKMongols in the Bw/Sw thread - will trim that extra TC and pick up another LH as suggested - 2 LH on each flank, one in the middle, then second line of the 4 Cav BGs to engage with shooting and Hospitallers to keep the enemy honest (Kurdish LF floating around somewhere).

I like the flank march idea with 4 generals available, but with IC+2 TCs that might leave everyone else short on bolsters. Well, I plan to refine the straight up doctrine and tactics before adding Armenians, flank marches etc. I do plan to write up formal doctrine piece by piece as worked out (will put it here, in format along the lines of my doctrine section of the General forum Tactical Tips post). Tying it together with historical discussion as you are working on is great!

Mike

[Amra]

Thanks All ,
Glad your finding it interesting .

I just dont see Mongols as blocks of Cv that ride up and shoot . It lacks manouvre and means he can mass on me .

Getting a result in a tournament is the Mongol problem isn't it ? Its why you must make a plan for the camp , its VP are important to achieving attrition . Even your Kurd foot in col , right on the table edge can move around to the camp . At least he will have to react to it , taking a unit out of the line to deal with the threat. These rules allow you to LH shoot , you can crack small BG with several rounds of 6-7 dice . Lots of hits make Death Rolls hard to survive .

Shooting also "pins" his Commanders . If you have attacked the flank , his gen must be there to recover the BG from the shooting - so he can't manouvre/fight elsewhere .

As to terrain , remember LH loves uneven OF , Cv/Kn don't . It's another reason to take LH .

The point of difference for a Mongol army ( as opossed to say Mamluks ) is the Lancers .

The Lancers must fight before the game finishes . They must be in position as soon as possible ( to take advantage of lucky Cohesion tests ) but don't need to be in combat til the last third of the game .

They must not charge formed enemy , they must be supported ( with shooting or overlaps ) .

Oh, and Mongol generals ALWAYS fight , usually with the Lancers . I have been trialling ALL Troop Commanders for my Gens .

Try the doctrine of mass, shoot em up , dance , bring on the Heavies . It worked for Genghis Just don't penny packet , all your army fights half of his . Use the speed (7-14) of LH and practice at home how to mass the max bows at a target . Alright a little sad , but why only test manouvers in a game ?

[frederic]

Is the Ilkhanids list suitable for Mongols who fight againt A. Nevski russians, or for Gengis Khan mongols ?
Or will Slitherine put more Mongols lists in forthcoming army lists ?

[Rudy_Nelson]

Most troop types should work for both regions.

[Amra]

Ya except the Ilkhan Mongols have the various Arabic and Christian troops .

Others will have Khitans and Georgians I guess