Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Or a screenshot of all enemy units as of turn one included in the briefing, similar to in Akkula's mod but a shot of the strategic map.

- BNC

[JimmyC]

If you send your surface fleet to the shipping lanes in the Atlantic, i know it triggers British capital ships to appear. But is the same true if you use the Kriegsmarine to attack Iceland?

[GeneralWerner]

Funny, I detected this topic only after my first play through

Haha. Now you know how i did so well. Because i followed these threads and picked up many valuable tips! Also, if you didn't know it, there is a rather excellent "tips for playing Battlefield Europe" thread by Uhu here http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=55486

Planning is clearly an important step before you make an attack. But for planning I need intelligence results and that is something not really provided by PG or PC.

I like the idea, but i guess that it could not be implemented in the current version of the game. A cheap fix would be to have a few 1 strength units in the Russian hinterland that would then be killed after the first turn.

Yes, I learned it the hard way
But one thing I will do for sure now. Ending the Med scenario first to take over some experienced units to Barbarossa.

[McGuba]

Planning is clearly an important step before you make an attack. But for planning I need intelligence results and that is something not really provided by PG or PC.

The scout units can only see something very near to their position. And sending fighters a long way to spy is not the duty of fighters (not to talk about the long snowy winters).

Well, in his proposed mod, Chris10 was supposed to provide a few long range reconnaisance planes with recon move and good spotting. I would rather use these if any. Ju-88D and stuff like that. I imagine these would have no active attack stats at all and a fairly long range. However, the AI would most likely attack these so they could not be used for strategic reconnaissance very effectively. But their reconmove and long spotting would help to some extent as they could move away from spotted fighters. In my previous Hungarian Army mod I had some recon planes, but for some reason I did not add these to this mod. Probably because I felt it would be unfair to have a plane with recon move as it would make ground recon units pretty much useless and it would make tactical reconnaissance way too easy. But in v1.6 I will make ground recon units much more useful as well, as they will have more movement and there will be more of them. Anyiway, it would be no problem to add like two-three such recon planes. But I agree that it only helps tactical recon and some more strategic recon would be more than welcomed by most players.

Or a screenshot of all enemy units as of turn one included in the briefing, similar to in Akkula's mod but a shot of the strategic map.

- BNC

I like this idea much more, I did not have the time to check Akkulas mod so far, but I think this would help a lot. Maybe I could also place such a screenshot in the library section of the game as well so that players can check it out later and not only when it pops up in a message box or briefing. I think it is an acceptable solution to have the knowledge of the position and number of enemy units in turn 1, so I think I will go for it in the next version.

If you send your surface fleet to the shipping lanes in the Atlantic, i know it triggers British capital ships to appear. But is the same true if you use the Kriegsmarine to attack Iceland?

No, but the US will try to recapture it later, if it is taken by the Axis.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

The library sounds like a good place for the screenshot - so why not?

Also WW2 equivalents of my zeppelins would work fine if they had 2 sight but perhaps 20 move (and absolute rubbish defense)
I'd set their cost at <50 though.

- BNC

[McGuba]

in v1.6 I will make ground recon units much more useful as well, as they will have more movement and there will be more of them.

So most ground recons will have 10 movement instead of 8 as in the vanilla game. This 2 hex increase make them surprisingly better as now they can scout ahead of the tank formations and retreat to safety. Also there will be more of them and I made a few new unit icons using some of guille's originals as a basis.

Sd.Kfz.221: The first light armoured car armed with a single machine gun. Soft Attack: 2 Hard Attack: 1.

SdKfz_221.png (27.97 KiB) Viewed 3525 times

Sd.Kfz.221 (late model): From 1942 the 2.8 cm schwere Panzerbüchse 41 was mounted on the turret of the remaining Sd.Kfz.221s. It was a light ant-tank gun with a cone-shaped barrel with the caliber reducing from 28 mm to 20 mm at the muzzle. This gave its projectiles a very high muzzle velocity and a fairly good armour penetration for its caliber. SA: 2, HA: 8.

SdKfz_221b.png (25.92 KiB) Viewed 3525 times

[McGuba]

Sd.Kfz. 222 (late model): In 1942 the armour of the Sd.Kzf.222 was increased to 30 mm in the front so I just added a camo to differentiate it from the earlier grey model:

SdKfz_222b.png (26.25 KiB) Viewed 3521 times

The Kradschützen will be in the recon class and will be in the same upgrade family with the recon verisions of the Sd.Kfz. 250.

Sd.Kfz 250/9: recon version of the halftrack using the same turret assembly of the Sd.Kfz. 222:

SdKfz_250-9.png (25.37 KiB) Viewed 3521 times

Sd.Kfz.250/11: an alternative to the 250/9 originally issued to platoon leaders, armed with the 28 mm sPzB41:

SdKfz_250-11.png (24.86 KiB) Viewed 3521 times

[GeneralWerner]

Hello McGuba,
concerning strategic intelligence what about this idea.

You provide a map of all enemy units of turn 1 in the library. I think at this time the German intelligence was still working very well and they knew more or less how many troops are roughly in what area.

And then you could update the intelligence with your pop up windows that you use so often at the begin of the axis round (and that I like so much). If it is technically possible to give the player info about the troops the AI has deployed (or started to move) you could for example give messages like:

"Intelligence Report:
The Soviets plan to enforce the defense of Moscow. At least 5 tank divisions, 3 artillery divisions and a not known number of infantry is on the way to Moscow.

The Soviets have started to move troops in the direction of Stalingrad. Expect an attack soon with minimum 4 tank divisions and ...

An American invasion fleet was spotted landing near Cassablanca. Our spies report about approximately 25 transport ship fleets, 3 battleships and 5 destroyers. It is not confirmed but very reliable that also submarines are included."

In the later years of the war and if the player is not successful the intelligence could also be adapted to this situation and become more and more unprecise.

[uzbek2012]

Sd.Kfz. 222 (late model): In 1942 the armour of the Sd.Kzf.222 was increased to 30 mm in the front so I just added a camo to differentiate it from the earlier grey model:

SdKfz_222b.png

The Kradschützen will be in the recon class and will be in the same upgrade family with the recon verisions of the Sd.Kfz. 250.

Sd.Kfz 250/9: recon version of the halftrack using the same turret assembly of the Sd.Kfz. 222:

SdKfz_250-9.png

Sd.Kfz.250/11: an alternative to the 250/9 originally issued to platoon leaders, armed with the 28 mm sPzB41:

SdKfz_250-11.png

Very nice ) Visual armor mods look very good in your project )
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.as ... 00&mpage=1

[flakfernrohr]

Sd.Kfz.250/11: an alternative to the 250/9 originally issued to platoon leaders, armed with the 28 mm sPzB41:

Is this icon available in vanilla grey so that a mask can be made to skin it? Also where would I find the stats and animations for it?

[McGuba]

If it is technically possible to give the player info about the troops the AI has deployed (or started to move) you could for example give messages like:


"Intelligence Report:
The Soviets plan to enforce the defense of Moscow. At least 5 tank divisions, 3 artillery divisions and a not known number of infantry is on the way to Moscow.
...

It is technically possible, but would take a lot of time to make it that precise. Mainly because the player's actions have an effect on the events in the mod. For example if you take the Caucasus less units will appear to move in the direction of Moscow in that time frame. Or, if you take Leningrad, but not the Caucasus, different, and probably more numerous units would appear again. Or, you take Moscow and Leningrad, but not the Caucasus, you end up having other units yet again to appear and move towards Moscow. So the possibilities if not endless, but are quite numerous.

As a result it is very hard to make such meaningful reports especially when it comes to the Eastern front. In the west it would be easier as the main landing sites and dates are given, but those are well known by WW2 fans. And for those who are not so familiar with them, they should be a surprise as they were to the German High Command of the time. (I AM evil.)

Also, historically, especially in the second half of the war, the Soviets managed to surpise the Germans several times, for example in the case of the Bagration offensive which was expected in the south and as a result most German tank divisions were moved there and mostly only infantry divisions were left in the north where it happened. By the end of the war the Soviets became the masters of camouflage and deception and it should be depicted in the mod IMO.

However, some more of these could be placed as they are not so hard to determine:

An American invasion fleet was spotted landing near Cassablanca. Our spies report about approximately 25 transport ship fleets, 3 battleships and 5 destroyers. It is not confirmed but very reliable that also submarines are included."

originally issued to platoon leaders, armed with the 28 mm sPzB41:

Is this icon available in vanilla grey so that a mask can be made to skin it? Also where would I find the stats and animations for it?

In this particular case I used the camouflaged vanilla Sd.Kfz. 250 transport and the camouflaged Sd.Kfz. 221 with the 28 mm sPzB41 icon (which original grey version was made by guille) and just mixed the two. So unfortunately I have no base icon for this. Sometimes I work like this to save the work making another icon mask. But here are the one I used:

SdKfz_250-1.png (23.05 KiB) Viewed 3426 times

SdKfz_221_sPzB41.png (27.44 KiB) Viewed 3426 times

As for their stats they can be found in the next version of the mod, but for this special unit here they are:

SdKfz 250/11 2 189 8 80 8 3 0 6 2 8 0 0 8 6 1 1 0 SdKfz_250-11.png 17.9.1943 1.1.1946 1 Sd.Kfz. 250/11 Krad

[McGuba]

Edit:
Hm, actually now it looks that the 28 mm gun on that icon is a bit different from the one that can be seen on guille's late Sd.Kfz.221. I think I might have used this one then as a basis:

SdKfz_221b.png (28.36 KiB) Viewed 3422 times

SdKfz_221b_Mask.png (8.85 KiB) Viewed 3422 times

I am puzzled.

[demyansk]

This game is enormous!!!!! I finished the few scenarios before Barbarossa and didn't receive a total victory on any of them. I even lost the Balkan campaign, I couldn't capture Crete in time. Do players actually complete in the minimal 16 turns? I couldn't leave on of the ports with my tank from Greece.

[JimmyC]

Balkan campaign is tough because of the time limit. The key to winning this one is to capture Athens as quickly as possible. Once captured, you are given 2 Paratroop units. You should suppress the Crete defenders with any available air forces and then drop the paratroopers on crete. They will take some damage, but should hopefully be able to capture it.

You could also use the Regia Marina to assist in bombarding the defenders on Crete, but beware as their are British subs and capital ships around that area.

Uhu has a good summary as part of his "Tips for Battlefield Europe" thread
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=55486

[McGuba]

This game is enormous!!!!! I finished the few scenarios before Barbarossa and didn't receive a total victory on any of them.

Hm, you might want to replay them then or reduce the difficulty level a bit as the main scenario will be even harder, especially after 1942-43. Achieving a total victory in the main scenario is extremely hard, so a marginal victory or even a draw is a nice achievment. Changing history is not easy.

I even lost the Balkan campaign, I couldn't capture Crete in time. Do players actually complete in the minimal 16 turns?

It is very hard, but not impossible to win it in 16 turns, a few players have managed to make it. But not me. I think in most cases a Marginal Victory can be achieved by turn 18-20. I set it up in this way as historically the campaign in the Balkans was a success but the capture of Crete almost failed as the German paratroopers suffered very high casualties.

I couldn't leave on of the ports with my tank from Greece.

In this scenario the player cannot use naval transports, the island has to be taken by paratroopers. Once the airfield is captured some more units can be airlifted, if needed.

Uhu has a good summary as part of his "Tips for Battlefield Europe" thread

Yes, it is good, but it was written for an earlier version of the mod, so when he writes "- Do not let the airforce in north to get into battle there: bring them down to south," is no longer true as in that case German airspace becomes undefended and the player will start to suffer prestige penalties due to the allied bombing raids.

[JimmyC]

In my current playthrough of Barbarossa i have captured the UK, but i am still harassed by US bombers and fighters. It could be that these spawned before I fully captured the UK as I only captured it around 8 turns ago, but I have the feeling that they may still be spawning. Does the US have aircraft carriers in the Atlantic somewhere that the planes are coming from or do they just spawn into the map? It just seems strange as there is no way these units can refuel anywhere, so they are effectively kamikaze units.

Note that I could be wrong though, as it is possible these units appeared before I fully captured the UK.

Or is the assumption that the US would keep on supporting the bombing of mainland Europe until the British Commonwealth is fully defeated?

[AJE]

In my current playthrough of Barbarossa i have captured the UK, but i am still harassed by US bombers and fighters. It could be that these spawned before I fully captured the UK as I only captured it around 8 turns ago, but I have the feeling that they may still be spawning. Does the US have aircraft carriers in the Atlantic somewhere that the planes are coming from or do they just spawn into the map? It just seems strange as there is no way these units can refuel anywhere, so they are effectively kamikaze units.

Note that I could be wrong though, as it is possible these units appeared before I fully captured the UK.

Or is the assumption that the US would keep on supporting the bombing of mainland Europe until the British Commonwealth is fully defeated?

That's what the B-36 was designed for, it would have been developed faster had the war gone worse. Not sure what the author intends to happen in the mod though. It's probably just stragglers, and the northwestern edge of the map will probably be secure once the UK falls.

[jinxed75]

in v1.6 I will make ground recon units much more useful as well, as they will have more movement and there will be more of them.

So most ground recons will have 10 movement instead of 8 as in the vanilla game. This 2 hex increase make them surprisingly better as now they can scout ahead of the tank formations and retreat to safety. Also there will be more of them and I made a few new unit icons using some of guille's originals as a basis.

That is great to hear. Will this also affect the PzII F Recon, e.g give them 8 instead of 6? I'm a big fan of that unit, it works surprisingly great for whittling down entrenched positions, as you can attack and escape the artillery bombardement, that would usually follow after.
In general I find Recon units to be really useful, although the rarest thing I use them for is actual recon work The 8rad-unit is fantastic for chasing and finishing off fleeing fleeing infs and light armored units.

The Kradschützen will be in the recon class and will be in the same upgrade family with the recon verisions of the Sd.Kfz. 250.

[/quote]

Not that I would complain about this, but I'm somewhat surprised. Kradschützen are already awesomesauce with their mobility. They are so good, that I'm running with 5 of them now, and if money wasn't an issue, I'd convert even more of my regular infs.

Will there be other chnages to unit stats? I think I read in another posting, that you're actually contemplating to lower the Tiger's defenses. I think, if anything, given its outrageous price, that thing needs some kind of redeeming quality. Because in its current state, it just isn't worth the money at all. Using it during Winter is downright hilarious. Move 1 turn->run out of Gas->refuel->move 1 turn->run out of gas->rinse...
I started a 2nd run of your mod, and I this time I wanted to purchase a Tiger unit for Rommels corps, since he had those, but I just got into Winter 42/43 again, and yeah...now I remember why this would be a collossal waste of money. Screw historicity, I'd rather use the prestige for something better.
Still, I think the 15fuel capacity is a bit too harsh. I know, the Tiger was famous for being quite the Gas Guzzler, but I'm not sure if its fuel consumption was indeed 3-4 times as high as that of an Pz4 or Panther.

[McGuba]

In my current playthrough of Barbarossa i have captured the UK, but i am still harassed by US bombers and fighters. It could be that these spawned before I fully captured the UK as I only captured it around 8 turns ago, but I have the feeling that they may still be spawning.

Once you captured the UK no more allied aircraft should spawn in England. The ones you still have must have spawned before the capture of the UK or might have spawned in allied occupied North Africa or the Mediterranean. Unless I made a mistake and placed a few units which do not have that condition for spawning, but I do not think so. A very few allied units do spawn over the Atlantic, but those only patrol the convoy routes. They might come from carriers or Greenland or whatever.

That's what the B-36 was designed for, it would have been developed faster had the war gone worse. Not sure what the author intends to happen in the mod though.

Actually it is not a bad idea and I might add it in a later version, but I think it makes more sense to award the player with some silence in the west if he takes the effort to capture England.

So most ground recons will have 10 movement instead of 8 as in the vanilla game.

Will this also affect the PzII F Recon, e.g give them 8 instead of 6?

The Panzer IIF had a max speed of only 40 km/h or 25 mph which in the game makes only movement 5. In contrast the 8-rads had a max speed of 80-85 km/h or 50 mph which is double that figure so it should be reflected accordingly. The Pz.IIF was not a very successful unit, its prodution was delayed and then its order was modified so that a 7.5cm anti-tank gun was to be mounted on the chassis creating the Marder II series. Its successor, the Pz.IIL "Luchs" (Lynx) was considerably faster with a max speed of 70 km/h, however it had a limited production run as its intended gun, 5 cm KwK 39/1 was never produced so that only 100 were produced armed with the good old 2 cm gun.

In general I find Recon units to be really useful, although the rarest thing I use them for is actual recon work

I think it is mainly due to their somewhat limited speed as they just do not have enough movement points to retreat to safety.

Not that I would complain about this, but I'm somewhat surprised. Kradschützen are already awesomesauce with their mobility. They are so good, that I'm running with 5 of them now, and if money wasn't an issue, I'd convert even more of my regular infs.

With the Kradchützen moved to the recon class they will not be so fantastic as they will struggle in close terrain. In the vanilla game they are some very fast moving infantry units with fairly good stats, but I think it is unrealistic for example to use them to garrison and hold cities as if they were infantry. They should not excel in close terrain I guess. I can hardly imagine motorcyclists rushing through a dense forest or a ruined city. These were mainly recon units used to reconnitre in front of the Panzers and not to storm and hold cities like infantry.

Will there be other chnages to unit stats? I think I read in another posting, that you're actually contemplating to lower the Tiger's defenses. I think, if anything, given its outrageous price, that thing needs some kind of redeeming quality. Because in its current state, it just isn't worth the money at all. Using it during Winter is downright hilarious. Move 1 turn->run out of Gas->refuel->move 1 turn->run out of gas->rinse...

It will have a bit lower ground defense, but the gift Tiger will come with a historical hero who will compensate for that loss. So in effect the balance of the mod will remain the same. (Actually it will be even better as a +2 defense hero means the unit will get +2 bonus to all its defenses wheter it is close, ground or air defense.)

The problem is that most people got used to have lots of Tigers as they are indeed the best tank units in the vanilla game for most of the time. But in reality it was produced in limited numbers mainly due to its complexity and cost and it required lots of strategic materials like high quality steel, being a heavy tank. So in the scale of this mod there should not be more than just one, or maybe in some games two Tiger I units. Remember in this mod a tank unit represents about 200 tanks and historically there were never more than 200-250 Tigers ready for action at the same time in any of the main theatres. The bulk of the Panzer force were always the Pz.IIIs, Pz.IVs and later the Panthers.

The low range is only partly due to its high fuel consumption. It was also quite unreliable mechanically which resulted in frequent breakdowns. Many of the Tigers lost were destroyed by their own crews after a breakdown and not by the enemy.

The Tiger will still remain a very good unit, especially when upgraded from a unit with a good hero, but only until the arrival of the Panthers. Historically the production of the Tiger I was stopped in mid 1944, just as the production of the Panthers reached its peak.

I started a 2nd run of your mod, and I this time I wanted to purchase a Tiger unit for Rommels corps, since he had those, but I just got into Winter 42/43 again, and yeah...now I remember why this would be a collossal waste of money. Screw historicity, I'd rather use the prestige for something better.

Actually you are right as Rommel had only 30-40 Tigers in Tunisia, which is well bellow the scale of this mod. Most Tigers were used on the eastern front.

Still, I think the 15fuel capacity is a bit too harsh. I know, the Tiger was famous for being quite the Gas Guzzler, but I'm not sure if its fuel consumption was indeed 3-4 times as high as that of an Pz4 or Panther.

Note that I borrowed most of the stats like the low fuel from deducter's mod.

There is a nice analysis on the use of Tigers in WW2 here:

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3722

Just one quote:

Essentialy an offensive weapon, the Tiger was difficult to retreat from the battlefield, due to its frequent breakdowns, high gasoline consumption and difficulty crossing bridges. The Tiger battalions needed to be loaded onto trains, which weren’t always available or close enough.

So I think it is quite all right with its low fuel in the mod from a historical point of view. It was better used in defense. And whenever possible use trains to move it.

[JimmyC]

In my current playthrough of Barbarossa i have captured the UK, but i am still harassed by US bombers and fighters. It could be that these spawned before I fully captured the UK as I only captured it around 8 turns ago, but I have the feeling that they may still be spawning.

Once you captured the UK no more allied aircraft should spawn in England. The ones you still have must have spawned before the capture of the UK or might have spawned in allied occupied North Africa or the Mediterranean. Unless I made a mistake and placed a few units which do not have that condition for spawning, but I do not think so. A very few allied units do spawn over the Atlantic, but those only patrol the convoy routes. They might come from carriers or Greenland or whatever.

I now realise the planes must have been from before Britain fell as I destroyed most of them, whilst others seemed to run out of fuel. No new ones appeared except for a rather annoying long range bomber that keeps hitting my subs. I suspect it is based out of Iceland.

After only barely holding onto Tunis I question the stats of the American soldiers. Both their hard attack and soft attacks are high – but my main complaint is with their hard attack. They absolutely rip through my armour on hills. For example, the Rangers unit attacked 2* Rommel in his 10 strength Panther in hilly terrain and caused 9 points of damage! Maybe that was a bit of an anomaly, but it seems too strong IMO. I suppose Rangers are elite units, but even the standard American infantry HA of 4 IIRC seems too high. Is there any reason for this?