Played my first game last night...

[OhReally]

Was very surprised how easy the rules were to get down.

We did a 400 point battle with my Maks against Spartans. Outside of setting up my elephants (which I took because they were painted, and I needed the points) and all of my light troops being set up horribly I did pretty well.

My companions whiffed on a charge against light spear cav, taking a year to finally route them, but my pike in the center held strong and routed two bg of spartan citizens. My light cav pretty much just led a unit of spartans on a tour of the tabletop.

I can't wait to see how my list does with the full 48 bases of pike!

A couple of things that got to me a bit was the elephants auto dying after losing one guy. As you can only take a maximum of two elephants in a battlegroup, losing one means 50 points just went poof. Might be working as intended it just kind of struck me as wrong.

One thing I don't quite get is the quality rerolls and my opinion might change over time. As the quality level of the troops increases obviously the cost of the troops go up a great deal as well. As this is the case I really just don't like how the quality rerolls work.

It would seem to make sense to have a set # of "reroll misses" for each quality level, or a certain percentage of the dice able to be rerolled depending upon quality level versus an arbitrary pip on a six sided dice. I mean the increase in quality level is consistent, it would seem the bonus for being of higher quality should be more consistent. I just don't see how the math is supposed to work out for this particular mechanic, especially in cases where you might have an elite unit led by a commander with enough positve POA to get a 3+ to hit. Like I said more games might change my mind, but I just don't like how this plays.

Otherwise the game seems very smooth, easy to understand, and a blast to play. Better than DBanything by 100x at least.

[SirGarnet]

A couple of things that got to me a bit was the elephants auto dying after losing one guy. As you can only take a maximum of two elephants in a battlegroup, losing one means 50 points just went poof. Might be working as intended it just kind of struck me as wrong.

Intended to be brittle - RBS called them glass cannons. Try to limit incoming damage to them.

I mean the increase in quality level is consistent, it would seem the bonus for being of higher quality should be more consistent. I just don't see how the math is supposed to work out for this particular mechanic, especially in cases where you might have an elite unit led by a commander with enough positve POA to get a 3+ to hit.

Quality matters relatively more when in a difficult situation. So the reroll matters relativeoly more when you need a 6 than when you need a 3-6.

Conversely, when you are Poor and need to roll 6s and reroll 6s, that lowers the odds from 1 in 6 to 1 in 36 - they don't hold up well in the low odds situations, which is basically as it should be.

Make sense?

Mike

[OhReally]

Quality matters relatively more when in a difficult situation. So the reroll matters relativeoly more when you need a 6 than when you need a 3-6.

Conversely, when you are Poor and need to roll 6s and reroll 6s, that lowers the odds from 1 in 6 to 1 in 36 - they don't hold up well in the low odds situations, which is basically as it should be.

Make sense?

Mike[/quote]

I understand it, I just don't agree with the math. I still think reroll a miss, or for poor a hit, makes allot more sense than rerolling a certain result on a particular dice. Then again I don't get paid to write games!

[philqw78]

I still think reroll a miss, or for poor a hit, makes allot more sense

Then that makes three troop types. Good, average, crap. There is a lot more than ability of the troops to take into consideration.

[OhReally]

I still think reroll a miss, or for poor a hit, makes allot more sense

Then that makes three troop types. Good, average, crap. There is a lot more than ability of the troops to take into consideration.

Only three troop types get rerolls now so I'm not sure what you are saying. Average troops get no quality reroll.

[Dorque]

I still think reroll a miss, or for poor a hit, makes allot more sense

Then that makes three troop types. Good, average, crap. There is a lot more than ability of the troops to take into consideration.

Only three troop types get rerolls now so I'm not sure what you are saying. Average troops get no quality reroll.

He's saying there would only be 3 types with what you said. Reroll hits, reroll misses, and don't reroll. Rerolling on certain pips gives more possibilities.

As for the math, FoG's way curves the results to make the bonus consistent across die rolls. A full reroll is more useful if you need a 6 to hit than a 3, but rerolling 1's is always the same amount better.

Code: Select all

Don't reroll
6: 17%
5: 33%
4: 50%
3: 67%

Reroll miss and need a...
6: 31% (*1.8)
5: 56% (*1.7)
4: 75% (*1.5)
3: 89% (*1.3)

Reroll 1's and need a...
6: 19% (*1.2)
5: 39% (*1.2)
4: 59% (*1.2)
3: 78% (*1.2)

[hammy]

A couple of things that got to me a bit was the elephants auto dying after losing one guy. As you can only take a maximum of two elephants in a battlegroup, losing one means 50 points just went poof. Might be working as intended it just kind of struck me as wrong.

Intended to be brittle - RBS called them glass cannons. Try to limit incoming damage to them.

It is also worth remembering that they get a +1 to the death roll and if you win or draw you get another +2. Essentially just make sure your elephants don't lose. Keep them between two other BGs so they don't get overlapped and if you lose just roll a big number.

The effect is definitley what is intended

I mean the increase in quality level is consistent, it would seem the bonus for being of higher quality should be more consistent. I just don't see how the math is supposed to work out for this particular mechanic, especially in cases where you might have an elite unit led by a commander with enough positve POA to get a 3+ to hit.

Quality matters relatively more when in a difficult situation. So the reroll matters relativeoly more when you need a 6 than when you need a 3-6.

Conversely, when you are Poor and need to roll 6s and reroll 6s, that lowers the odds from 1 in 6 to 1 in 36 - they don't hold up well in the low odds situations, which is basically as it should be.

A BG of elites led by a general with a ++ in combat is not a common situation. This is the only combat situation where the fact a reroll cannot be lower than the initial roll makes a difference. If you roll a 3 in such a combat you will hit.

If you are taking a cohesion or maneuver test with elites and roll a 2 then whatever you reroll you will get at least 2.

[flameberge]

I'm guessing they made the elephant groups brittle to make up for the fact they didn't want to come up with a bunch of rules to handle out of control elephants stampeding through your own troops and so I think it is a good compromise.

[nikgaukroger]

I think it was decided that nellie BGs should be brittle because elephants were brittle. Play testing also showed that if you could have them in 4s they were way too powerful.

[SirGarnet]

I'm guessing they made the elephant groups brittle to make up for the fact they didn't want to come up with a bunch of rules to handle out of control elephants stampeding through your own troops and so I think it is a good compromise.

They still do, unexpectedly. While in most cases you can anticipate a rout as BGs deteriorate, with Elephants they can be fine one moment, then they lose a base, autobreak, inflict break tests, and rout right into whatever is behind them, possibly disrupting them to help the enemy pursuers right behind.

You would not have fun stuff like this happening on the first base loss if they ran in packs of 4s!

Mike8