Why is GC44 so intent on destroying my guts?

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I have been playing the same round of the Grand Campaign since the release of '39, and have finally finished Minsk44 (mostly in an attempt to be finished with the thing!). Currently I have ~50k pp and am playing on Lieutenant (which is normal for me)

So, why is Russia able to destroy as many as 25 of my core units every mission?

Currently my core has 1 5* Tiger2, a 5* Gebirgsjager and about 10 2-3* Tigers (I and II), along with probably 10 1-2* 12.8 AAs and a few other random green units. But this changes so many times throughout a scenario that only the strong stuff seems to matter.

In Babruysk, I found the insane amount of planes impossible to deal with using the normal method (Luftwaffe), but having seven or eight AAs in the city did the job fine.

But then Minsk came along, and while the AAs did alright, he had WAY too much artillery so that no matter what, I was guaranteed to lose a unit every turn (my tanks stayed well away until later in the mission due to fear of the Red AF). Uusually he would target my artillery (which is pretty much all dead now), and by turn 12 he had about a quarter of the city under his control (MGs would blow up his tanks, but only to be filled with new tanks!).

I ended both with MVs, but really they were Pyrrhic Victories that even 50k Prestige won't last me until Berlin.

So, how do I not die? About to start Vilna, and am hoping for an easy victory at Warsaw, but other than that I can't see a very good future for the rest of the campaign (When I get to '45, I will take the defensive path)

- BNC

[shawkhan2]

You have to play wisely to survive to the end.

Defensively, infantry should always be in city or woods hexes, backed by at least one or two artillery. Stay away from the expensive SP guns.
You sometimes need to back up infantry with two artillery to keep them alive. Many people use too large a caliber. I still use 150mm artillery for their ammo supply.
You must back up your artillery with at least one good AA, adjacent to it.

Keep your fighters back to counterattack enemy air after it has been weakened.

Your armor should always be in clear terrain, backed up with artillery/AA as well. Use them at choke points, my favorite being at roads crossing rivers.

Most people use the wrong kind and not enough artillery. Same problem in your WWI mods. Use enough artillery and problems go away.

I play on Field Marshal, am in 1944 myself right now with 80k prestige.

You must budget what you buy, air being way too expensive to have much of. In my last play-through I won every battle with DVs until utterly failing at SeaLion45.

To survive until the end you have to start budgeting as early as 1940. The best bang for the buck is NOT always the best unit available.

Hopefully you have also developed a huge reserve of experienced units early in th game so you can replace the inevitable losses.

Good Luck, Buena Suerte, Bon Chance!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

Most people use the wrong kind and not enough artillery. Same problem in your WWI mods. Use enough artillery and problems go away.

Yes, but in WWI artillery is many times more deadly than anything else (except tanks and some of the fictional stuff), so you are confirmed to be getting a huge amount of power. 2 Cav and 30+ Artillery would probably work in offensive missions.

In GC though you don't get the same immense power, so I get a bit lost when trying to decide how many.

You sometimes need to back up infantry with two artillery to keep them alive. Many people use too large a caliber. I still use 150mm artillery for their ammo supply.

So 21cm is too big? I have a single nebelwerfer and a wurframen which stay under constant and significant AA cover, but other than that I just have a few 21's. Should I go for 17s or 15s then? (My WWI strategy says more attack power = far better value than anything that just supresses)

Your armor should always be in clear terrain, backed up with artillery/AA as well. Use them at choke points, my favorite being at roads crossing rivers.

I tend to keep them well out of the enemy's way for most of the mission, then bring them out once the many AAs have killed 90% of his airforce. They are all >3* Tigers (except for 2 SE units that I got in Mogliev? and Babruysk)

Hopefully you have also developed a huge reserve of experienced units early in th game so you can replace the inevitable losses.

Not really (they died ages ago!) As I said I've been chipping away since '39's release, and was a rubbish player then. By '43 I was capable of playing reasonably well on Lieutenant, but by then there were too many Russians to follow all of the advice on the forums about building up a force (I was probably at Stalingrad or Kursk by the time I started looking at the forums!)

But the expensive stuff is very strong and I am very protective of them. Only cheap, green stuff gets regularly replaced and if a tank dies I replace with an AT.

I do have a rarely-used Luftwaffe of 5 fighters, but will most likely sell them off later (One has 5*, the rest about 2*)

You must budget what you buy, air being way too expensive to have much of. In my last play-through I won every battle with DVs until utterly failing at SeaLion45.

I'll never make it to Sealion 45. Dieppe is too hard and the whole of GC '42 W sucks (It's the only DLC I'm fully unhappy with though ) Plus I'm not likely to start another 5-year (real time) campaign in '39 just to play another 20 or so new missions. The real war takes less time to play out than my current GC run (well, almost!)

- BNC

[JimmyC]

So 21cm is too big? I have a single nebelwerfer and a wurframen which stay under constant and significant AA cover, but other than that I just have a few 21's. Should I go for 17s or 15s then? (My WWI strategy says more attack power = far better value than anything that just supresses)

Definitely yes! You have to take into account ROF and IIRC, 21cm is terrible. I mostly go for 15" and 17". Maybe just one 21cm max IMO.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

So 21cm is too big? I have a single nebelwerfer and a wurframen which stay under constant and significant AA cover, but other than that I just have a few 21's. Should I go for 17s or 15s then? (My WWI strategy says more attack power = far better value than anything that just supresses)

Definitely yes! You have to take into account ROF and IIRC, 21cm is terrible. I mostly go for 15" and 17". Maybe just one 21cm max IMO.

Darn. I've been using them a lot since 1943... No wonder I haven't had a DV since the first Kursk mission (except Kiev43)

- BNC

[shawkhan2]

The larger calibers of artillery are nice but they constantly run out of ammo and are More expensive as well.
All my artillery is 150 unless I get a range hero. Then I convert it to 17cm.

[captainjack]

For me, ammo is nearly as important as RoF. The difference between 8 and 7 ammo isn't that big but once you are at 5 or less, you spend a lot of time reloading and not so much firing.

Currently I keep the 10.5 until the 17cm becomes available. The extra attack of the 17cm compensates for the lower RoF and reduced ammo, as it can suppress most Soviet heavy tanks and churchills (a bit). I usually convert guns with +2 or better attack heroes into 17cms to make sure they do real damage. The 15cm extra attack doesn't make enough difference for me to change. The 21cm Nebelwerfer is also good for blasting heavily entrenched infantry as it has high SA and 100% RoF.

But back to 44 East in general - it's not easy. Last time I played I did OK, but I was very restrained - only aimed for MV, cut the airforce down to a minimum and used more AA, and did my best to avoid my main problem in 1943, which was thinking "I've cleared that lot, I might as well take that town while I'm there." Unfortunately, this was always a trigger for the AI to launch a massive counter attack resulting in humiliation and loss of several 4* units.. Eventually I learned to think, resupply, think again then re-read the briefing. Less exciting but much more effective. The main drawback was I missed Poltava and the AA units by a turn (rugged defence) and hadn't saved since the beginning of the previous scenario which made a replay very unappealing.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

For me, ammo is nearly as important as RoF. The difference between 8 and 7 ammo isn't that big but once you are at 5 or less, you spend a lot of time reloading and not so much firing.

Currently I keep the 10.5 until the 17cm becomes available. The extra attack of the 17cm compensates for the lower RoF and reduced ammo, as it can suppress most Soviet heavy tanks and churchills (a bit). I usually convert guns with +2 or better attack heroes into 17cms to make sure they do real damage. The 15cm extra attack doesn't make enough difference for me to change. The 21cm Nebelwerfer is also good for blasting heavily entrenched infantry as it has high SA and 100% RoF.

But back to 44 East in general - it's not easy. Last time I played I did OK, but I was very restrained - only aimed for MV, cut the airforce down to a minimum and used more AA, and did my best to avoid my main problem in 1943, which was thinking "I've cleared that lot, I might as well take that town while I'm there." Unfortunately, this was always a trigger for the AI to launch a massive counter attack resulting in humiliation and loss of several 4* units.. Eventually I learned to think, resupply, think again then re-read the briefing. Less exciting but much more effective. The main drawback was I missed Poltava and the AA units by a turn (rugged defence) and hadn't saved since the beginning of the previous scenario which made a replay very unappealing.

I just skipped the offer for Poltava on the basis that I can't lose as much prestige if I don't do the extra scenario - didn't know about the AAs then

- BNC

[Philwd]

My last FM playthrough the key for me was being able to screen my forces with 5* Tigers and a couple 4* Ferdis. 5* Panthers did ok also in 44 but in 45 the IS2 and ISU-122 love to go after even full 15 strength Panthers. 4* infantry backed by a 17 or 21cm arty always on hills or rough. I found the Russians would not attack my fully overstrengthed units. It was expensive but the fewer losses made up for it. If you have mostly 2* then you will run into difficulties with a screening strategy. I know some strategies called for rotating 1 or 2* Stugs in to absorb the attacks then use your really experienced core to take out the weakened units. I haven't played Manstein so I haven't tried that out yet. For arty I know about ROF but I just liked the 21cm for the extra HA. Any infantry attacks I used my 2 Wurframmen.

I liked to set up flak and fighter traps for the Rusky airforce. He always sends out recon first so you know what he will be able to see. You can place flak or fighters 1 hex past his LOS to lure his bombers. I honestly have never gone the full flak route rather built up 5 high experience fighters and 2-3 FW FB(I also had a HE-177 but in 44 and 45 with the lower core allowed they usually sat out). I usually had full control of the air in 3 or 4 turns. Bombers stay out of the way until all fighters are toast. I sometimes sat out all but one of my flak depending on the scenario just to get more tanks in to screen the front. If I read correctly you have 10 12.8 cm flak so you might not have have enough combat units.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. Without an experienced core, and or reserve, you have no chance to deter attacks. Your green units will die every scenario as you can't screen and protect them.

[captainjack]

Poltava is a bit of light relief compared with most of 44 East - you get to be the attacker; if you're cunning you can minimise the amount of actual fighting; and you get experienced AA units as a reward which are either totally brilliant if you didn't have any AA to start with, or a nice source of prestige if you already had some.

There is also a possibility that the AI has taken a personal dislike to your army and is (electronically) laughing to itself as it heaps misfortune on your troops. It sometimes does that to my forces, especially when I play badly.

[BiteNibbleChomp]

I liked to set up flak and fighter traps for the Rusky airforce. He always sends out recon first so you know what he will be able to see. You can place flak or fighters 1 hex past his LOS to lure his bombers. I honestly have never gone the full flak route rather built up 5 high experience fighters and 2-3 FW FB(I also had a HE-177 but in 44 and 45 with the lower core allowed they usually sat out). I usually had full control of the air in 3 or 4 turns. Bombers stay out of the way until all fighters are toast. I sometimes sat out all but one of my flak depending on the scenario just to get more tanks in to screen the front. If I read correctly you have 10 12.8 cm flak so you might not have have enough combat units.

10 Flaks is a combination of 88s and 128s. In Babruysk and Minsk 44 I had no problems with having that many as I don't deploy my Luftwaffe anymore, so they fill in for that role as well. Plus the 88s can be turned into AT mode as well. If the Russian AF had less than 30 planes I might be more inclined to bring the fighters out, but I don't want my 5* Fw being toasted.

Poltava is a bit of light relief compared with most of 44 East - you get to be the attacker; if you're cunning you can minimise the amount of actual fighting; and you get experienced AA units as a reward which are either totally brilliant if you didn't have any AA to start with, or a nice source of prestige if you already had some.

Well beyond that now - I'm going to be entering Vilna next. But I'm not lacking in AA anymore and 50k prestige seems to be carrying me fine (since I bought the AA I have made profits in scenarios! Minsk particularly was about 2k), so there is no reason for me to go back that far (and I lost the save, so it's not easy to go back anyway!)

There is also a possibility that the AI has taken a personal dislike to your army and is (electronically) laughing to itself as it heaps misfortune on your troops. It sometimes does that to my forces, especially when I play badly.

Probably - I think it is angry after I put early-WW2 equipment into my WWI mod and then smashed its guts out in America! I just hope it gets over this by the time '45 rolls around, otherwise I'll probably just die.

I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. Without an experienced core, and or reserve, you have no chance to deter attacks. Your green units will die every scenario as you can't screen and protect them.

At least half (including all expensive units) are veterans (3+*), and I still have 50k prestige, so I'm not going to die as a result of one bad battle. I'm more interested in how to not get worn down as quickly. Particularly in Vilna, which is huge. (And what's up with Warsaw Rising - is this some really simple scenario put in to make you feel better before sending you off to Kishinev [again!] to get mauled? Or is there actual difficulty?)

- BNC

[JimmyC]

There is also a possibility that the AI has taken a personal dislike to your army and is (electronically) laughing to itself as it heaps misfortune on your troops. It sometimes does that to my forces, especially when I play badly.

ROFL!

[BiteNibbleChomp]

There is also a possibility that the AI has taken a personal dislike to your army and is (electronically) laughing to itself as it heaps misfortune on your troops. It sometimes does that to my forces, especially when I play badly.

ROFL!

Well we aren't ever very nice to the AI are we? But it must lose every battle so that we have entertaining discussions over here. Though my Ypres screenshot in the WWI thread might give it some inspiration

- BNC