Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

A forum to discuss custom scenarios, campaigns and modding in general.

Moderators: Slitherine Core, Panzer Corps Moderators, Panzer Corps Design

McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by McGuba »

BiteNibbleChomp wrote: Warning: They are very hard to read on the snow-capped peaks, so try not to place them there whenever possible.
Ah, yeah, that's a problem. And unfortunately cannot be avoided as winter sets in every year with lots of snow. :evil: But it only lasts for a couple of turns and after that the white hell gives its way back to the nice greens and the country name markers will become visible again. :D
JimmyC wrote:So we can expect the v1.6 to be out soon then? I will need to hurry up and finish my current run, but i am so distracted now with OOBP!
Sure, it is at the doorstep now, testing has reached and advanced stage (around turn 65). The reason why it takes so long that this time I am trying to create savegames so that players can start the scenario líater as well not just in 1941. I am trying to re-create the historical sceanrio in 1942/43/44 as much as I can for those who got bored of the easy (?) victory over the AI when starting in 1941.
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

McGuba wrote:
BiteNibbleChomp wrote: Warning: They are very hard to read on the snow-capped peaks, so try not to place them there whenever possible.
Ah, yeah, that's a problem. And unfortunately cannot be avoided as winter sets in every year with lots of snow. :evil: But it only lasts for a couple of turns and after that the white hell gives its way back to the nice greens and the country name markers will become visible again. :D
Well you could probably recolour the letters light blue or something if it suited the scenario. Rome doesn't have winter so I guess I never thought of it (6 months to a turn)

- BNC
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Akkula
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by Akkula »

Maybe just add a black border to the letters?
Eastern Front: Soviet Storm (v1.96): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=50342
Modern Conflicts (v2.10): http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=72062
Hanny
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by Hanny »

When you started out, what map size and unit density as a max value did you find was practible?, even with no cache is there a memory problem with save game size?. Basicly what would you suggest as the max size of map?.

I saw a mod of a massive map size that never was completed, was it an issue of memory due to size of reprensentation or like many mods just never went the distance.
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

Hanny wrote:When you started out, what map size and unit density as a max value did you find was practible?, even with no cache is there a memory problem with save game size?. Basicly what would you suggest as the max size of map?.

I saw a mod of a massive map size that never was completed, was it an issue of memory due to size of reprensentation or like many mods just never went the distance.
Not so much an issue with save file size (EU4 saves are often >40mb), but with RAM usage when in the game. The maximum that seems to work without a huge amount of trouble is roughly 200x200, though 300+ will work if you have large amounts of RAM (16gb +). Though many people have 4gb or less, so it is best to not overdo it.

With my scenarios I tend to try to be under 125x125 (Battlefield Europe is 170x110, War of the World is 200x80), as any more and the amount of units becomes quite extreme (200-500+ per side)

- BNC
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by McGuba »

Akkula wrote:Maybe just add a black border to the letters?
I will see how it works with the original ones first. Adding a border to the existing letters would be a bit too time consuming I think. If I go for it it would take less time to make new letters. I think I will try some re-colouring or changing the brightness instead (that can be done in seconds) if it is all too bad during winter.
Hanny wrote:When you started out, what map size and unit density as a max value did you find was practible?
The current one. :wink: Which is 170x110 hexes with some 2000 Allied and 400 Axis units pre-placed. But only a fraction of those should be present in the map at the same time. Most of them appear in later turns and by then the earlier ones are destroyed.
even with no cache is there a memory problem with save game size?.
Since I have been using the /nocache I did not have any crashes or anything like that. The only problem seems to be with the strategic map as it can turn blank at times. But not on all computers. And even on my old laptop I can fix it by disconnecting from the internet before running the game and by not running any other programes in the background.
Basicly what would you suggest as the max size of map?.
I have no idea. :cry: You have to experiment if you want any bigger than this, I am afraid. It may or may not work. I can only say it works fine with this size throughout 99 turns, with a few hundred units present on the map in each turn.
I saw a mod of a massive map size that never was completed, was it an issue of memory due to size of reprensentation or like many mods just never went the distance.
I guess you refer to Chris10's Panzer Corps Eastern Front mod. That unreleased mod was a major influence for me to make this one. Unfortunately the guy disappeared from this forum without even saying good bye. In his final posts he promised a coming release of his mod and he was busy placing the units for the opening moves and testing the first turns. And that's it. Whatever happened to him and his mod project is a mistery, we can only hope he is all right. Wheter he stopped the mod because something happened to him, or because he ran into some unexpected problems, is unknown. :(
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Ason
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by Ason »

I guess you refer to Chris10's Panzer Corps Eastern Front mod. That unreleased mod was a major influence for me to make this one. Unfortunately the guy disappeared from this forum without even saying good bye. In his final posts he promised a coming release of his mod and he was busy placing the units for the opening moves and testing the first turns. And that's it. Whatever happened to him and his mod project is a mistery, we can only hope he is all right. Wheter he stopped the mod because something happened to him, or because he ran into some unexpected problems, is unknown. :(
A mystery indeed. He did put up some videos of the scenario on youtube and I think he was active on youtube not long ago, I tried contacting him to get my hands on the unfinished version but he didn't reply...
donblassvivar
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by donblassvivar »

Is it possible to play this game pbem? if so how?
BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

donblassvivar wrote:Is it possible to play this game pbem? if so how?
It's not. The scenario is only balanced for the Axis against a very stupid AI. If you put a human in charge of the Allies then the war would be over as quickly as a T34 can drive from Minsk to Berlin.

- BNC
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by JimmyC »

@ McGuba - in the latest patch i hope that you can do something with the sea mines. They are very frustrating to deal with at the moment as they disappear the following turn after i spot them, so i have to try and remember where they were (which is almost impossible given the scale of the map).

Maybe make it so they stay visible after being spotted? Alternatively if you could create a new unit such as a minesweeper and give it the sea minekiller trait (similar to minekiller trait on pioneer's).
McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by McGuba »

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:
donblassvivar wrote:Is it possible to play this game pbem? if so how?
It's not. The scenario is only balanced for the Axis against a very stupid AI. If you put a human in charge of the Allies then the war would be over as quickly as a T34 can drive from Minsk to Berlin.

- BNC
Yeah, it is designed to be played from the Axis side against the AI. As historically, the Allies get a lot more reinforcements so it would not be balanced in a human-human game. If you want to play against a human opponent I would suggest trying the 1941 scenario by Sparatacus:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=147&t=38532
JimmyC wrote:@ McGuba - in the latest patch i hope that you can do something with the sea mines. They are very frustrating to deal with at the moment as they disappear the following turn after i spot them, so i have to try and remember where they were (which is almost impossible given the scale of the map).

Maybe make it so they stay visible after being spotted? Alternatively if you could create a new unit such as a minesweeper and give it the sea minekiller trait (similar to minekiller trait on pioneer's).
I am aware that it is a problem for many players so I plan to make naval mines remain visible once spotted in the next version. However, there will be more of them to keep the balance as they will be less effective. As a result of the minefield trait, which makes them permamently visible, they will not have active attack and they will do much less damage. It is hard coded in the game and I cannot change it. :( On the otber hand they will have zone of control so it will take time to cross between minefield units So in practice they will act more like a barrier then like deadly unseen submarines.
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JimmyC
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by JimmyC »

McGuba wrote:
BiteNibbleChomp wrote:...
I am aware that it is a problem for many players so I plan to make naval mines remain visible once spotted in the next version. However, there will be more of them to keep the balance as they will be less effective. As a result of the minefield trait, which makes them permamently visible, they will not have active attack and they will do much less damage. It is hard coded in the game and I cannot change it. :( On the otber hand they will have zone of control so it will take time to cross between minefield units So in practice they will act more like a barrier then like deadly unseen submarines.
This is great to hear and will make the naval aspect a lot less frustrating (especially around the English Channel)! Thanks for addressing this issue. I also think its a good compensating factor that they exercise a zone of control.
guille1434
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by guille1434 »

Or... Both mines types could be kept: The deadlier, submarine like mines can represent a special type of mine (think about the German magnetic influence seabed mine which was completely invisible), and the regular, less dangerous type can represent the normal, contact-fuzed, floating moored sea mine... Just an idea! :-)
jinxed75
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by jinxed75 »

Hello McGuba,

congratulations for an outstanding peace of work! It really takes the game to another level, and makes it feel alive like never before. I should curse you though, as it is an insane timesink, and I actually didn't have the time I've wasted on the game anyway :D
A couple of comments and suggestons from my side:

I do believe that either the units should be a bit cheaper, or alternatively you should get a bit more prestige per turn. As it stands now, there are a lot of unit types I can only dream of getting into my core. Basically all of the better Artillery units are prohibitively expensive, and there isn't even an upgrade path for let's say the 15cm to 17/21cm. Fancy stuff like Wurfrahmen I'm not even thinking of.
Upgrading my Panzer forces to the Pz3/4 line as well as converting 2 of my 109 squads fo Fw190s pretty much ate up everything I had on spare resources, even though my campaign has been fairly successful until recently.
It's March '43 now in my game, and after a good year 1942, where I took Moscow and Malta, while preparing the siege of Leningrad, which will fall within the next 2 or 3 turns, I feel that the game is lost now anyways. Even though I played my cards in Russia safely by keeping the front line rather short (basically Odessa-Dnepopretrovsk-Charkow-Kursk-Moscow), I'm hardly able to contain the massive strike the Red Army is dealing from the area east of Charkov. Endless waves of really hard to crack T34/43, KV1s, the assortment of Allied shipment units, 5 trillion Infs are not what's finally killing me there, it's the huge wave of Tactical Bombers, which are dishing out obscene damage when attacking my tanks.
Maybe I just had a streak of bad rolls, but I had to take several hits of 4-6 damage on my Pz3 and 4s, making them easy work to finish off for the T34s. Wish my Bf-110s were that deadly...
With my slim income of approx. 1000PP per turn I have no idea how to recover these losses. On top Albert Speer has been exposed as an incompetent fool by coming off with a laughable 100 points from organizing the total war industry. That's just enough for the treads of a single Pz4, Albert!
You may get what I'm trying to say, I think should review this point.
On to the next scene of action, Africa. So, the brits launched their offensive from Suez, the US have landed in the west. I stayed pretty passive in Africa so far, just turtling around Benghazi, fending off the occasional Matildas and Crusaders. I was fairly successful at Sea, and the Italian Navy managed to sink the Valiant, her Light Cruiser escorts, as well as the Carriers Ark Royal and Eagle. That enabled me to seize Malta with the help of Rudel.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to deal with the british subs, which brings me to my next concern. Subs in their current state are overpowered, especially when submerged. A single Destroyer will lose a 1 on 1 with a Sub in 8 out 10 times(the crappy Italian ones in 9 out of 10). That isn't a problem for the Royal Navy, as they have like 200 of them, but is one for me as the player :D
So now I'm in the funny position of having 2 Battleships and 2 Heavy Cruisers who aspire to rule the Mediterranian sea, but effectively are on the steady run from British subs :mrgreen: ...which is bad as I could reeeeaaaally use them now as Artillery support against the US forces. Yeah, I probably could divert Bombers from Russia, but as bleak as the situation there currently is, I don't want send them on sub-hunting.
Lets get back onto shore. So, the Suez force arrived at Benghazi, and what have my sandy eyes to gaze upon? Not a bigger numbers of units, as expected, but a group of 4 invincible juggernauts, led by a STR13 Chevy Truck. My Infantry was deeply entrenched around the hills and mountains, Artillery behind. I thought, I might be able to hold the line for a while, even with my 88 and the tanks being sent to Tunis. Well, no, that Chevy Truck of Death from Murder Mountain nearly disintegrated my Bersalgieri with the 1st attack :twisted:
Needless to say that idea of "holding the line" can be described as wishful thinking after all.
So my critique here is, how come that some colony forces have that amount of experience. 3 Stars, that equals my most experienced Panzer units on the eastern front, after nearly 2 years of constant fighting. It's not only virtually impossible to cope with, it just doesn't feel right.
To a certain extend that also goes for the numerous 2* units in Russia. The Red Army was famous for huge numbers, the Wehrmacht for being well trained and experienced. Here, the Red Army has it all.
Off to the west, and my last big headache. Others complained already about it, and I see you already have a plan to change it. It's those freaking range attacking, vision establishing mines of course.
They are the last nail on the coffin for my initial plan of invading GB, while holding off Joe in the east, then plowing my way towards Babylon after Churchill has been put to final retirement.
I tried a sneak invasion in Wales early December. The idea was to bank on bad weather, so they wouldn't see me until it is too late for Royal Navy to react properly. I was able to sink one of their Battleships, 2 Cruisers and some Destroyers, when they caught my surface fleet on a pirate run a couple of months before, but I lost some of my Cruisers too, and had to retreat before they could sink my Capital ships, which took some damage in the process. So, having the element of surprise was crucial for success. Didn't happen, and not only I had the still sizable Royal Navy swarming me in no time, also the mines took good advantage of the fact that my transports would have to end their turns beside them, due to the narrowness between Ireland and Wales.
What's really bad on top of all their traits is that there are no sensible means of dealing with them, but I know, this has already been discussed just a couple of posts ago.
So, I'll end my WW2 on Turn 44, and while I failed, I had a blast on the process.
Just...one more turn is CIV's motto, but you Sir, have taken it to a new level. Hitting the button with the hourglass filled me with anticipation, hope, fear, ecstasy and despair, every.single.time. Hats off, and shame so few people have enjoyed your incredible work. Guess I can see myself as a proud member of an exclusive club :mrgreen:
flakfernrohr
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by flakfernrohr »

ANYTHING by McGuba is EXCELLENT. This is the kind of mod that will be played by thousands for years (you may laugh but consider the longevity of Panzer General and it is STILL going strong).
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
uzbek2012
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by uzbek2012 »

When will be released the new version of Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.6 !?
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McGuba
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by McGuba »

guille1434 wrote:Or... Both mines types could be kept: The deadlier, submarine like mines can represent a special type of mine (think about the German magnetic influence seabed mine which was completely invisible), and the regular, less dangerous type can represent the normal, contact-fuzed, floating moored sea mine... Just an idea!
Yeah, Delta66 already suggested it, but for now I think I will only try to go for one type for simplicity. Maybe later I will mix it up a bit if it does not work.

jinxed75 wrote:congratulations for an outstanding peace of work! It really takes the game to another level, and makes it feel alive like never before. I should curse you though, as it is an insane timesink, and I actually didn't have the time I've wasted on the game anyway :D
Believe me, I also curse myself as I wanted to finish it ages ago, but since people just keep coming up with nice and interesting new ideas I always have to make a new version. :twisted:

But, honestly, my original intention was not to make it a time waster mod, but to make people think a bit more about the circumstancies and possible outcomes of WW2, had the Germans followed a different strategy. And unfortunately, as I see, most games released these days do not realy make people think, but only make them play (and pay) and get addicted. And now I do not want to come up with examples, even though I could.

Now about the critical observations:
I do believe that either the units should be a bit cheaper, or alternatively you should get a bit more prestige per turn. As it stands now, there are a lot of unit types I can only dream of getting into my core. Basically all of the better Artillery units are prohibitively expensive, and there isn't even an upgrade path for let's say the 15cm to 17/21cm. Fancy stuff like Wurfrahmen I'm not even thinking of.
The scale of this mod is quite large, a single unit stands for hundreds of vehicles/guns and thousands of soldiers. And the Wehrmacht had only a limited number of those fancy stuff, the majority being the more boring towed guns and stuff like that. For example, while some 5,400 15 cm sFH 18 were produced, there were only 338 17 cm Kanone 18s. So in the game the player should have only one 17 cm Kannone for fifteen 15 cm sFH units to remain historically accurate as there were fifteen times more produced of the latter one. And there are only two 15 cm sFHs in the map in turn 1. Obviously, you do not have to remain historically accurate, and you can invest on the more fancy units, but then it costs a lot of prestige. Basically you can afford one or two of those fancy units, but only at the cost of purchasing other, more important units.
Upgrading my Panzer forces to the Pz3/4 line as well as converting 2 of my 109 squads fo Fw190s pretty much ate up everything I had on spare resources, even though my campaign has been fairly successful until recently.
Actually, it is not neccessarily a good idea to upgrade all earlier Pz.I, Pz.II and Pz.35-38 to Pz.III and Pz.IV at once as those are only marginally better in 1941. Historically those earlier models remained in use well into 1943 even if not in the first line but for example in anti-partisan duties or in secondary, support role. In game they can be used behind the newer types to finish off weakened units or to attack infantry in the open or such. Uhu wrote a nice assesstment of the earlier panzers and their possible uses in the mod:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 6&start=40

So, if you do not upgrade at once all your tanks, you have already saved some prestige for other, more important units.

Same goes for the Bf-109 -> Fw-190 upgrade, during my playtests I only upgraded one Bf-109 in France when it becomes available and then two more later in the Eastern front, when I had the prestige. Historically, the two were used simultaneously until the end of the war, the first Fw-190 unit in the East was only raised in August 1942.

I think the basic problem is that most players got used to the fact that they can always upgrade to the latest stuff while playing the official campaigns. However, that is very unhistorical as those obsolete types were used for much longer and in most cases together with the newest ones, until they were worn out or were destroyed. There was no pension age for tanks in ww2. :cry:
the assortment of Allied shipment units, 5 trillion Infs are not what's finally killing me there, it's the huge wave of Tactical Bombers, which are dishing out obscene damage when attacking my tanks.
It might be a good idea to cover the more important tanks visible to the enemy from the air with some fighter planes. If there is a fighter above or on an adjacent hex of a tank at the end of the Axis turn chances are high that the AI will not attack it from the air fearing the defensive fire provided by the fighter. Historically those Il-2s were quite effective against unprotected tank columns at and after Kursk especially when using the small PTAB bombs of which each plane could carry nearly 200.
Wish my Bf-110s were that deadly...
The Bf-110 was not an effective tank destroyer, however, the Ju-87G and the Hs-129 were. And these have comparable ground attack stats to the Il-2s.
Unfortunately I wasn't able to deal with the british subs, which brings me to my next concern. Subs in their current state are overpowered, especially when submerged.
It might be true, but the Axis also has a few of those U-boats, isn't it? :wink:
a STR13 Chevy Truck. My Infantry was deeply entrenched around the hills and mountains, Artillery behind. I thought, I might be able to hold the line for a while, even with my 88 and the tanks being sent to Tunis. Well, no, that Chevy Truck of Death from Murder Mountain nearly disintegrated my Bersalgieri with the 1st attack :twisted:
Ah, yeah, I have already changed that one to a simple infantry unit in the next version with "only" 200 Exp.

By the way,
So my critique here is, how come that some colony forces have that amount of experience. 3 Stars, that equals my most experienced Panzer units on the eastern front, after nearly 2 years of constant fighting. It's not only virtually impossible to cope with, it just doesn't feel right.
that unit was originally supposed to simulate the highly effective SAS units in North Africa who made some daring raids behind enemy lines. But since then I realised that these just does not fit into the current scale of the mod, so I made them back to normal infantry. Sorry about it, anyway.

As for the those "some colony forces", for example there were the Nepali Ghurkas, who were one of the finest Allied units, and even the news of their arrival to a frontline was enough for some battle hardened German units to start to shake in fear. Not only the Wehrmacht had elite units.
To a certain extend that also goes for the numerous 2* units in Russia. The Red Army was famous for huge numbers, the Wehrmacht for being well trained and experienced.
I think it is only true for the first half of the war. With the Germans suffering losses constantly, they had to replace the well trained veterans with green troops. And then in the end they just simply ran out of men and were forced to recruite boys and the elderly to fill the ranks. And those two star Soviet units only start to appear in the second half of the war. By that time the Red Army had improved its training and doctrine greatly, and as a result the margin between the quality of German and Soviet units became smaller and smaller.
So, I'll end my WW2 on Turn 44, and while I failed, I had a blast on the process.
Sorry to read it, but I think you are right. Actually it is still hard to understand why the Germans continued to fight after Stalingrad, after Kursk, after Bagration and Normandy. On top of that even after the failed offensive in the Ardennes and in Spring Awakening. Yeah, we know the answere, they had the Führer who just could not quit, but still... He was just one man, but had many followers.
Guess I can see myself as a proud member of an exclusive club :mrgreen:
Indeed. :D

I never claimed that it is an easy mod to beat. The people at German High Command were not stupid idiots as often depicted in certain war movies, they had guys like Guderian, Rommel, or von Manstein. They were certainly great generals and strategists and they had the most effective army of the time at their disposal, armed with some of the most effective and innovative weapons in the world. Still, in the end they lost the war. The question of this mod is supposed to be why? It certainly had to do something with the fact that the Allies produced some four times more tanks and aircraft and had a lot more soldiers and resources.

In the end, I would strongly recommend you to read the two latest ongoing AARs, written by other first time players:

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=63878

http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=145&t=64124

When will be released the new version of Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.6 !?
Unfortunately I had to postpone it as I made some more changes and I would like to test how it works now. But it will not be easier then the previous versions. :evil:
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BiteNibbleChomp
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by BiteNibbleChomp »

McGuba wrote: Believe me, I also curse myself as I wanted to finish it ages ago, but since people just keep coming up with nice and interesting new ideas I always have to make a new version. :twisted:
I know how you feel - Gold was supposed to be WWI's last update, but then I had to patch it - and then decided to add more scenarios :oops:
McGuba wrote:Obviously, you do not have to remain historically accurate, and you can invest on the more fancy units, but then it costs a lot of prestige. Basically you can afford one or two of those fancy units, but only at the cost of purchasing other, more important units.
You need more of these fancy units. Poison Gas Zeppelins anyone? :lol:

- BNC
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flakfernrohr
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by flakfernrohr »

This mod is just a great mod no matter what is done with it. I can't believe anyone would get "bored" with it. But then, that's just me.
Old Timer Panzer General fan. Maybe a Volksturm soldier now. Did they let Volksturm drive Panzers?
JimmyC
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
Sergeant Major - SdKfz 234/2 8Rad
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Re: Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.5

Post by JimmyC »

flakfernrohr wrote:This mod is just a great mod no matter what is done with it. I can't believe anyone would get "bored" with it. But then, that's just me.
+1. The only reason to stop playing is that it is a time sink!

For those that are struggling with the game, i strongly recommend doing the early scenarios and trying to save up as much prestige as possible (as well as getting experience for your core units). I found that doing this gives you a very large boost for the main Barbarossa scenario. Also, try learning the upgrade trees and availability of the main upgrades (Uhu has some good posts about this in his thread).
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