What do Causalities in the Stats Screens Represent?

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:11 pm

Specifically, do the numbers under infantry included the number killed, captured and wounded? If wounded, are they gravely wounded? What about tanks, planes and ships? Do those number represent the number destroyed beyond repair or do they included damaged?

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:58 pm

Here's the screen capture of the casualties screen at the end of my last game. I'm still wondering what exactly the numbers mean?

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:11 pm

numbers of soldiers dead, tank destroyed, planes destroyed, ships sunk.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:37 am

syagrius wrote:numbers of soldiers dead, tank destroyed, planes destroyed, ships sunk.

Thanks. The number of soldiers KIA on the axis side always seem much higher than historical. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worl ... rchart.png & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II which shows the total axis KIA at 8,000,000 versus the 14,000,000 in the above screen.

syagrius · Post by **syagrius** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:55 pm

Yeah, in my games the German ends up losing almost as much people as the Soviets.

JyriErik · Post by **JyriErik** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:30 pm

That's several reasons for the casualty rates in the game being different from historic levels.

1)Even the AI isn't as stupid & wasteful of men's lives as Stalin was (especially in the first year or so of the war). If you want to "simulate" that for yourself, just do the following. A)Have every Russian unit attack every turn and B)never add replacements to any Russian unit. I guarantee you'll see horrendous/historical Russian casualties.

2)Players in games tend to attack in situations where historically no one did. If you wanted to do the siege of Leningrad historically, then it would go as follows. Germans cut off Leningrad. Russians launch 3 or 4 attacks in the winter of 1941. Then both sides sit still for 2 years until the Russians attack again after Stalingrad and relieve the city. Situations like that occurred often in real life, while in games people tend to consider it anathema to have units in contact with the enemy do "nothing" for long periods of time. Deaths are real for those who lived the events, in a game, deaths are just another number to show who did better.

Jyri

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:26 am

By casualties we do not mean deaths, we mean wounded, dead or missing. Some may end up recovering and go back to teh front and end up being recorded again as a casualty. Having said that it is still only an approximation of the real events as we do not strictly follow the force sizes that the nations had avaiable to them and we do not take account of prisoners, desertions etc.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm

iainmcneil wrote:By casualties we do not mean deaths, we mean wounded, dead or missing. Some may end up recovering and go back to teh front and end up being recorded again as a casualty. Having said that it is still only an approximation of the real events as we do not strictly follow the force sizes that the nations had avaiable to them and we do not take account of prisoners, desertions etc.

Thanks. So casualties = KIA + WIA + MIA. Then those numbers makes a lot more sense to me.

What about the tanks, aircraft and ship numbers? Do they equal destroyed + damaged?

Post by **IainMcNeil** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:41 pm

Damaged beyond patching up on the battlefield so requiring some major rework.

rkr1958 · Post by **rkr1958** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:59 am

Through observation I've discovered the following relationship between step loss and casualties. I believe the below numbers hold for 1939 & 1940 (at least). Do they hold for all countries and in later years?

Air (1 step) = 26 planes. Air wing (10-steps) = 260 planes.

Armor (1 step) = 52 AFVs. Armor (10 steps) = 520 AFVs.

Surface Ships & Subs (1 step) = 5 ships. Surface Ships & Subs (10-step) = 50 ships.

I still haven't figure out how the above step loss translates into manpower casualties and what 1 step loss in garrisons, infantry corps and motorized corps means.

EDIT: I just did for infantry and motorized corps (for early war at least).

1 step (Infantry foot or motorized) = 5036 soldiers.

Also, air, armor & ship step losses don't add to this number.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:53 pm

rkr1958 wrote:Through observation I've discovered the following relationship between step loss and casualties. I believe the below numbers hold for 1939 & 1940 (at least). Do they hold for all countries and in later years?

Air (1 step) = 26 planes. Air wing (10-steps) = 260 planes.

Armor (1 step) = 52 AFVs. Armor (10 steps) = 520 AFVs.

Surface Ships & Subs (1 step) = 5 ships. Surface Ships & Subs (10-step) = 50 ships.

I still haven't figure out how the above step loss translates into manpower casualties and what 1 step loss in garrisons, infantry corps and motorized corps means.

EDIT: I just did for infantry and motorized corps (for early war at least).

1 step (Infantry foot or motorized) = 5036 soldiers.

Also, air, armor & ship step losses don't add to this number.

That's probably fairly accurate, but with the caveat that the major fleet units are different. I am guessing that a Carrier unit is one or two Fleet carriers (remembering that a Royal Navy CV was much smaller than a USN CV), and escorting cruisers, destroyers, fleet oilers, etc. A Battleship unit probably varies more. One could approximate by tallying the number of BB's available to the RN in 39, and dividing that by the number of Battleship units in the game at the start of the 1939 scenario, I suppose.