Pike contacted on the Flank

[Renier]

Hi
How many Pike turn in the manoeuvre phase if they were contacted by a flank charge?
For example a block of 8 pikes in the open(2 wide 4 deep), with no enemy in front is charged by 4 light horse in the flank.
How many of the pike with automatically turn to face the light Horse in the melee phase?
On p 70-71 "Conforming to the enemy" does not explain when the flank change was legal and not in contact with troops to the front.

Thanks
RvH

[rogerg]

If I remember correctly there is a sentence saying "obey the normal rules for turning" when charged in the flank. In 15mm scale the 4 pikes are 60mm deep, 1.5 base frontages, so the end file turns to be two bases wide to be the minimum to cover that width and hence is two deep.

[SirGarnet]

Check out page 56-57. The Pikes turn in the Impact Phase. Assuming you contact the whole flank edge with a legal flank charge, they turn and face you 2 wide and 2 deep (they turn, occupying the same space they were in). You would not need to conform if you were already lined up on the flank.

If you don't get them disrupted in Impact or Melee (no cohesion loss for the Pikes here since they were charged by skirmishers) they are not disrupted, you break off in the JA Phase and the Pikes' next Manoeuvre Phase they can reform as before and continue moving forward (basically, you keep them busy during your turn, but their turn they are out of combat and just continue on their way). To really get their attention and pin them down, use non-Skirmishers.

Cheers,

Mike

[Renier]

Thanks Mike, (but I was the pikes and the Lh did no damage ),
RvH

[domblas]

Check out page 56-57. The Pikes turn in the Impact Phase. Assuming you contact the whole flank edge with a legal flank charge, they turn and face you 2 wide and 2 deep (they turn, occupying the same space they were in). You would not need to conform if you were already lined up on the flank.


so how do u keep BG integrity? the other file slide to contact the rear of the turned pikes?

[philqw78]

Obeying the normal rules for turning they would turn from 2 wide 4 deep to 2 wide 4 deep and give the LH a deserved kicking, or pointy sticking, if they were not also in contact to the front, I think.
To keep integrity, if they were contacted to the front also on the remaining part, the 2 wide 2 deep would slide backwards to touch the remaining 1 wide four deep and the LH move forward.

[SirGarnet]

Obeying the normal rules for turning they would turn from 2 wide 4 deep to 2 wide 4 deep and give the LH a deserved kicking, or pointy sticking, if they were not also in contact to the front, I think.

Just the "bases contacted" turn to face "using the normal rules for turning," so only the file turns.

As for why it has to be this way to avoid cheese, consider that if the whole BG had to turn the LH might keep the Pikes from going where they were headed for forever by forcing CMTs to turn and get moving again.

To keep integrity, if they were contacted to the front also on the remaining part, the 2 wide 2 deep would slide backwards to touch the remaining 1 wide four deep and the LH move forward.

Aye, due to the 15mm deep bases.

[philqw78]

consider that if the whole BG had to turn the LH might keep the Pikes from going where they were headed for forever by forcing CMTs to turn and get moving again.

That doesn't seem unreasonable if the LH want to keep risking the casualties. I wouldn't be particularly happy about carrying on if we kept getting charged in the flank, and turning all ranks to face really would hurt the LH, 4 dice at ++ against 2 dice at --

[Renier]

But Pk in 2 deep formation does not get ++, Spear will, but Pk 2deep get no + factor (maybe for armour),
thus the impact phase the Lh ++, with 2 die, and the Pk -- with 2 die
In the melee phase 2 die at -, for the Lh and 4 die for the Pk at + (only the armour)

RvH

[philqw78]

I was saying ++ on the IMHO not unreasonable all pike turning to face. Which it appears they don't.

and turning all ranks to face really would hurt the LH, 4 dice at ++ against 2 dice at --

But could all the pike turn in the melee phase?? to feed more bases into combat