Difficulty levels and strategic units

[oddible]

Maybe I got lucky and keyed right into a winning strategy but Veteran is a bit of a pushover. I'm feeling the need for a Hoang Van Thai level or something. Currently I have to create role-play like strategies to make things more difficult (like only using armor and no hueys or something, or using my Green Berets to create ARVN?!?!??? instead of scouting).

Maybe the problem is that Green Beret are WAY too powerful. Vision wins the war. I don't know why I would ever park a 4000pp unit in a base to create a crappy infantry unit when I could just use my GBs in the field and see everything coming and whack them with arty and cobras before they're even a problem. Maybe the VC need a guerrilla unit like the GB that can't be spotted easily and can impact significant destruction (maybe more mines, base or unit sabotage, stealthily affect village loyalty).

All this said, there are some strategic units in the game that I don't really see as relevant in the current game design, Armor, Mech Infantry and ARVN. It could be argued that wheeled warfare wasn't significantly relevant in the jungles of Vietnam anyway so why make them relevant in the game, but they're in the game and they really don't have much of a game play use. Not really sure how to affect air units or infantry in a way that would make wheeled warfare more relevant or if that is necessary. Maybe more threat to air cav, significant bonuses to wheeled units on roads?

ARVN are just pointless. They tie up the most important unit in the game to make a nearly useless unit. A couple well places GBs and the game is over. Not sure how to tone down GBs to make ARVN more a strategic necessity (disposable scouts vs the high value GB units). Currently GBs have almost zero threats in the game, that is a problem.

EDIT: OH! And the achievement that reduces the cooldown of air strikes is BACKWARDS! If I can get that achievement I need it HARDER not EASIER! Give me strategic advantages only if you're going to give me a more difficult level

[oddible]

Oh, and I used ambush once... it was awesome! But completely unnecessary because of Green Beret. Another strategic component made irrelevant by an OP unit.

[Sabratha]

Agreed. Green Berets are too powerfull, as IMHO cobra units.

I think cobra units should have a lower attack efficiency. I still thik my idea of braking the current Geen Beret into LRRP (pure recon) and Green Beret proper (combat+training) could help balance things out.

I also agree that veteran is a bit too easy, or rather that a 3rd difficulty level could be had.

The main issue is how to increase dificulty, without making the communist side seem ahistorically numerous and/or combat-effective. I think mortar units are one idea, giving the US a provincial caputal to defend is another. Casualities to US units could also cost political points at higher difficulty levels.
Perhaps recon units should have a visual range of 3 in the open and on rice fields, but only 2 when it comes to units hidden in jungle?

[oddible]

I still thik my idea of braking the current Geen Beret into LRRP (pure recon) and Green Beret proper (combat+training) could help balance things out.

The problem with this is that it is the ONLY trade-off with GBs. If you do this there would literally never be a reason to buy LRRP as ARVN are pointless in the game since ARVN occupy the same role as GBs. This suggestion would exacerbate the problem I think. GBs need a nerf and the trade-off needs to be emphasized. So maybe they either need to be more fragile or more visible (ie. more risk) so that there is a reason to sacrifice time in the field with GBs for training low value scouts / cannon fodder (which let's face it is all ARVN amount to in this game).

Perhaps recon units should have a visual range of 3 in the open and on rice fields, but only 2 when it comes to units hidden in jungle?

Great idea. Vision is one of the biggest issues with the current gameplay.

I think cobra units should have a lower attack efficiency.

Agreed. I think that air cav and cobra are so powerful in the game as it stands that there is really no need to use mech infantry and rarely need to use armor. I noticed that there is a flight cost associated with using air cav, maybe this needs to be all air units and it needs to be higher so that air is support rather than the only method.

I think mortar units are one idea, giving the US a provincial caputal to defend is another.

Mortar are already in the game as the NVA assault unit (looks like a tank which is a bit silly), they're just toothless and easy to take out and there aren't enough of them to really be a threat.

BTW if this post is sounding over-critical I just want to say that this is a fantastic and actually well-balanced game and solid as a rock for an initial release. These suggestions are from me as a war gamer and user experience practitioner who knows ESS will release some tweaks to the gameplay in the next few months and would love to have some positive input

[Rosseau]

For me, being dumb is a blessing, as I am actually challenged by AI's and computer games. But your points are serious ones, and I'm sure will be considered by the dev, in order for this game to flourish.

In your case, there is no more point to play the game, unless you blindfold yourself, and that is an issue. You probably got your $9 worth, but I'm sure there will be more.

[oddible]

Haha I definitely got my $9 worth. And they did include achievements so I can try to work through those - actually forcing myself to build ARVN units in a game right now both for the achievements and to see what their value is. Unfortunately it is a map with a very strong road link between villages which I think is more an armor / mech map than an ARVN map - I suspect ARVN function better in jungle maps with few road connections.

[Every Single Soldier]

Great feedback, balancing this game was a challenge , almost every iteration you guys mentioned above has been tried, the difficulty is as soon as you streghten or weaken a unit the whole hierarchy of balance needs to be revisited...

I can't tell you how many times I have adjusted the Cobra, armor and GB's

This is also why there are only the number of units there are at present, but don't run for the hills right now, there are other mechanism's other than combat value and detection to get the game going, for example, driving the player to 'hand over' to the ARVN (Vietnamisation program) and penalizing them with PP deductions if they don't get the ratio right, you see my thinking....

I am trying not to always np balance with unit values, but rather 'prompt player' into behavior patterns which are still true to the conflict.

[Sabratha]

I still thik my idea of braking the current Geen Beret into LRRP (pure recon) and Green Beret proper (combat+training) could help balance things out.

The problem with this is that it is the ONLY trade-off with GBs. If you do this there would literally never be a reason to buy LRRP as ARVN are pointless in the game since ARVN occupy the same role as GBs. This suggestion would exacerbate the problem I think. GBs need a nerf and the trade-off needs to be emphasized. So maybe they either need to be more fragile or more visible (ie. more risk) so that there is a reason to sacrifice time in the field with GBs for training low value scouts / cannon fodder (which let's face it is all ARVN amount to in this game).

Yeah my point was that GB's would have a recon range of 1 like regular infantry, while only LRRP would have a recon of 3 (2 in jungle).