Battle of White Mountain

[Ronhudale]

I am sure many have conquered this defensive scenario (Battle of White Mountain). Unfortunately I have not. I have tried to keep my troops on the higher ground but i consistently lose all melees. I would appreciate any strategic advice. I guess I have a lot to learn but i truly love the game.

[KateMicucci]

I just beat it on my second attempt. It was the default difficulty, so no big accomplishment, and there are probably better strategies.

Here is what I did:

The default horse/pike checkerboard is no good. Cuirassiers will just charge into the harquebusiers and route them. All of the pikes went forward to the first hill, except for one in reserve. Most of the harquebusiers stayed behind them to harass any tercios who break through. All of the hussars and a few of the harquebusiers go to the left flank, where they will charge the horse on the Catholic's right flank and break them as quickly as possible. (It would probably be better to keep the hussars in the center and send all of the harquebusiers to your left flank because they will certainly be engaging in melee there). Your right flank stays in a defensive position, with horse surrounding the pikes in the Star Palace. Try to keep the harquebusiers and hussars there protected by the hills and ZOCs of your currassiers and pikes, since that is where the concentration of Catholoic currassiers is greatest.

The Catholic tercios will charge you as soon as they can, and if they get in combat with one of your smaller, rawer units, it will collapse. Use the Fall Back command when the enemy gets in charge range, and pick one tercio at a time to pour on the fire. If a tercio does break through, surround it with the horse you have in reserve and harass it while staying out of its charge zone. You really need to have cannon and a lot of units shooting at a tercio during the same turn to have a good chance of disrupting and fragmenting it.

Since it will be faster to break Catholic harquebusier and cuirassier units, you may want to initially have your pikes concentrate fire on them to clear breathing room for your own harquebusiers. Without their cuirassiers to protect them the tercios will have a hard time dealing with your horde of harquebusiers.

[Waldorf]

Thanks for the hint. Going all Pike at the front swung it for me on the middle difficulty setting. It was a damn close run thing, but we got the Hussars behind their guns and managed to hold the Palace. We were only a few percentage points away from losing but they broke the magic 60% first.

[lk2500]

Thanks for the hint. Going all Pike at the front swung it for me on the middle difficulty setting. It was a damn close run thing, but we got the Hussars behind their guns and managed to hold the Palace. We were only a few percentage points away from losing but they broke the magic 60% first.

Did you move the pike units to the first hill and then roll them back to the 2nd or just stand your ground at the first hill? I've tried it twice now and the enemy veteran tercios always roll through my lines like they're wet toilet paper. Should I concentrate fire on other units instead of the veteran tercios and break them first?

Any more advice/tactics to beat this on the middle difficulty settings?

TIA,

[Waldorf]

I'm afraid it's a little too long ago for me to properly recall. I don't think we fell back - I vaguely recall a soft crumple on our left flank and fighting tooth and nail from within the Palace walls. Before that we just tried to hold the front hill as long as possible using the infantry.

[JosephM]

Hello All,

Like Kate, I did it on the default difficulty, and from memory it was one of the easier battles (although some I've found very hard when they should be easy and vice versa, so luck always has its part to play). Seems he has my tactic as well. I moved my pike to a front line on the edge of the backmost slope (I think you guys are calling this the 2nd hill). Then moved my Kurassiers and Arkebusiers to the flanks and put them in position to hammer the enemy as they tried to take the flanks. From memory I kept the hussars further back or in the palace and kept them out of the way as they will die quickly. I think the only difference is I let the enemy come to me - in my eyes the guns and shot in those forts are not worth protecting as they serve to distract the enemy while you shoot them.

[lk2500]

Hello All,

Like Kate, I did it on the default difficulty, and from memory it was one of the easier battles (although some I've found very hard when they should be easy and vice versa, so luck always has its part to play). Seems he has my tactic as well. I moved my pike to a front line on the edge of the backmost slope (I think you guys are calling this the 2nd hill). Then moved my Kurassiers and Arkebusiers to the flanks and put them in position to hammer the enemy as they tried to take the flanks. From memory I kept the hussars further back or in the palace and kept them out of the way as they will die quickly. I think the only difference is I let the enemy come to me - in my eyes the guns and shot in those forts are not worth protecting as they serve to distract the enemy while you shoot them.

Is the default difficulty setting the middle one or the one to the left of that (easier)?

I tried again and placed tercios in the fortifications instead of the muskets and that seemed to help a lot. A raw tercio stood up at the enemy veteran tercio for quite a while there. I also stacked 6 tercios in the palace but once the ones in front fell and the enemy crossed the palace walls it was all downhill from there.

The enemy veteran tercios and Kürassier units still end up crushing me.

Perhaps I need to do a better job with combined arms in protecting my Hussar's. I will give it a fourth shot and see what happens.

[Sabratha]

Hello All,

Like Kate, I did it on the default difficulty, and from memory it was one of the easier battles (although some I've found very hard when they should be easy and vice versa, so luck always has its part to play). Seems he has my tactic as well. I moved my pike to a front line on the edge of the backmost slope (I think you guys are calling this the 2nd hill). Then moved my Kurassiers and Arkebusiers to the flanks and put them in position to hammer the enemy as they tried to take the flanks. From memory I kept the hussars further back or in the palace and kept them out of the way as they will die quickly. I think the only difference is I let the enemy come to me - in my eyes the guns and shot in those forts are not worth protecting as they serve to distract the enemy while you shoot them.

For me this was one of the harder ones, as the catholic tercios tended to run ouver even my regular pikes in melee. Wimpfen was to me far easier.

[JosephM]

See, I suffered on Wimpfen - kept losing until the gunpowder explosion took out an enemy tercio, and even then my victory was a close one.

The default difficulty is the middle one. From what I remember, concentrating fire on the veterans was how I eliminated them. The hussars I found to be largely ineffective, so try to keep them together and allow sheer number of shots to stop any threats. Their base morale is too low for any sustained fire. I think I put most/all horse on the left flank, then slowly turned that flank. I think the palace was overrun, but yes you are best only having 2/3 units on the outer facing - any more and they are wasted. I found that the shot and guns in those forts forced the enemy to have to pause to eliminate them, but opened them up to more fire from my units behind.

[lk2500]

Thanks for the tips, I was finally able to barely win this scenario 59% - 62%, lol.

What worked:

1) Putting tercios in the fortifications and moving the muskets over to work with the Arkebusiers worked well.

2)I was able to sneak one Hussar unit up each edge, hide in the woods for a few turns, then charge out and take out the enemy guns.

3) Line up the remaining tercios/P&S above the gun emplacements on the 2nd hill.

4) Concentrate on taking out the enemy horse. The dang enemy veteran tercios still rolled right through my lines eventually, I never did break either of them.

[Sabratha]

Hello All,

Like Kate, I did it on the default difficulty, and from memory it was one of the easier battles (although some I've found very hard when they should be easy and vice versa, so luck always has its part to play). Seems he has my tactic as well. I moved my pike to a front line on the edge of the backmost slope (I think you guys are calling this the 2nd hill). Then moved my Kurassiers and Arkebusiers to the flanks and put them in position to hammer the enemy as they tried to take the flanks. From memory I kept the hussars further back or in the palace and kept them out of the way as they will die quickly. I think the only difference is I let the enemy come to me - in my eyes the guns and shot in those forts are not worth protecting as they serve to distract the enemy while you shoot them.

Tried this very tactic today and failed miserably. At 38% opfor losses at the end.

Catholic tercios and cuirassiers came and defeated my infantry on the hill with a melee charge, later on an enemy tercio did the same with my infantry in the walled compound on my right.

The fact that I maneged to rout both enemy wings with my cavalry did not help, as moving my horsemen from the sides into a position to strike opor tercios took too long. By the time they were in said positions, the game was over as catholics routed too many of my infantrymen.

Thanks for the tips, I was finally able to barely win this scenario 59% - 62%, lol.

What worked:

1) Putting tercios in the fortifications and moving the muskets over to work with the Arkebusiers worked well.

2)I was able to sneak one Hussar unit up each edge, hide in the woods for a few turns, then charge out and take out the enemy guns.

3) Line up the remaining tercios/P&S above the gun emplacements on the 2nd hill.

4) Concentrate on taking out the enemy horse. The dang enemy veteran tercios still rolled right through my lines eventually, I never did break either of them.

Tried this today and failed. Catholics kept their horses back, witing for their infantry to brake my own. I tried to attack their horse with mine, but they hve more cuirassiers than me and can overwhelm me, even if i rout all their arquebusiers.

Certainly the hardest battle in the game so far. Wimpfen was very, very absurdly easy in comparison.

[lk2500]

Hello All,

Like Kate, I did it on the default difficulty, and from memory it was one of the easier battles (although some I've found very hard when they should be easy and vice versa, so luck always has its part to play). Seems he has my tactic as well. I moved my pike to a front line on the edge of the backmost slope (I think you guys are calling this the 2nd hill). Then moved my Kurassiers and Arkebusiers to the flanks and put them in position to hammer the enemy as they tried to take the flanks. From memory I kept the hussars further back or in the palace and kept them out of the way as they will die quickly. I think the only difference is I let the enemy come to me - in my eyes the guns and shot in those forts are not worth protecting as they serve to distract the enemy while you shoot them.

Tried this very tactic today and failed miserably. At 38% opfor losses at the end.

Catholic tercios and cuirassiers came and defeated my infantry on the hill with a melee charge, later on an enemy tercio did the same with my infantry in the walled compound on my right.

The fact that I maneged to rout both enemy wings with my cavalry did not help, as moving my horsemen from the sides into a position to strike opor tercios took too long. By the time they were in said positions, the game was over as catholics routed too many of my infantrymen.

Thanks for the tips, I was finally able to barely win this scenario 59% - 62%, lol.

What worked:

1) Putting tercios in the fortifications and moving the muskets over to work with the Arkebusiers worked well.

2)I was able to sneak one Hussar unit up each edge, hide in the woods for a few turns, then charge out and take out the enemy guns.

3) Line up the remaining tercios/P&S above the gun emplacements on the 2nd hill.

4) Concentrate on taking out the enemy horse. The dang enemy veteran tercios still rolled right through my lines eventually, I never did break either of them.

Tried this today and failed. Catholics kept their horses back, witing for their infantry to brake my own. I tried to attack their horse with mine, but they hve more cuirassiers than me and can overwhelm me, even if i rout all their arquebusiers.

Certainly the hardest battle in the game so far. Wimpfen was very, very absurdly easy in comparison.

I will try to elaborate a bit for you while it's still fresh in my mind, perhaps it will help you out.

I moved the muskets out of the fortifications and moved them over to the left of the lh gun emplacement. I lined them up with a couple of Arkebusiers at the edge of the first hill. I placed one of my two cuirassiers behind them and used it to engage some of the enemy kurassiers as a back up. I moved the rest of the Arkebusiers lined up with the edge of the first hill on my left flank in a check mark pattern. I also moved a couple of Hussars over on the hill behind the muskets as back up. The enemy kurassiers will eventually break through some of your units, if you time it right you can charge their flank/rear with the Hussars as they chase their prey. Try not to purposely charge the enemy horse unless they are already engaged and you can charge them from the flanks. Or if you can get 2 Arkebusiers vs 1 armored Cossack in melee you might be ok. Just try to blast away with your Arkebusiers and Hussars, you should eventually be able to overwhelm them with numbers and then move your Arkerbusiers over to help a bit in the middle.

I did something similar on the right flank; kept 2 Hussars to the right of the palace and 3 inside the palace. I kept my other cuirassier and 2 Arkebusiers on the hill to the left of the palace. Once the armored Cossacks chased my Hussars down into the rh/lower corner I charged the hussars from the palace grounds into their flanks/rear.

I was able to sneak one Hussar unit up each edge, hide in the woods for a few turns, then charge out and take out the enemy guns. The AI totally ignored the one in the woods on the right flank but kept a kurassier back on the left flank for a few turns. I was eventually able to charge and take out both guns once the Catholics had advanced a bit.

I placed 2 raw tercios in the fortifications where the muskets were. This will slow down at least one of the Catholic veteran tercios and allow you to shred the Catholic infantry up a bit. The raw tercios last surprisingly long inside the fortifications.

I lined up 4-5 tercios behind the fortifications and 4-5 behind the rh gun emplacement at the edge of the 2nd hill. Pour fire on anything that moves. I was able to take out a couple of enemy kurassiers that were fool enough to try to charge up the hill.

I kept the original 2 P&S units in the palace grounds with the few Hussars. These units will all eventually be overrun, not much I could do about it. But at least they chewed up a few tercios before they went down.

The remaining Hussars stayed up in the middle on top of the 2nd hill to run around and harass where needed. I sacrificed one Hussar to charge a kurassier that was trying to take out my rh gun. That allowed the gun to continue firing for several more turns. You don't have to charge necessarily, just move it down near the kurassier and fire. The kurassier will concentrate on the Hussar in lieu of the guns, which will also allow your tercios to fire on the kurassier one more turn since it won't be in melee.

You can also run a few Hussars, like the ones that charged the guns, behind the lines to harass some of the retreating enemy horse. If you don't, I noticed a few of them will rally prior to leaving the board.

The enemy veteran tercios are virtually unstoppable. I concentrated cannon fire on them from the beginning and they just keep coming like King Tigers.

There were a few times I just cursed the game designers and chuckled at their deviousness . Those were when an enemy veteran tercio or kurassier unit would break one unit, causing another unit or two to disperse, fragment or break, then advance it's charge and engage another unit in melee all in one turn. And it was usually when I thought I had a chance to win, then..... not. Bravo to the designer of the AI!!

Have fun! Let me know if you have any questions.

[simacole]

To be honest I found this relatively easy. I won first time on middle difficulty. (sergeant major general) Maybe I was just lucky. I put regiments with pikes on the first hill. I planned to fall back shooting but it didn’t work. The Tercio came on much quicker than I expected I took casualties and was afraid to fall back for fear of cohesion tests.

I positioned the hussars behind my main force on my left, along with two mounted arkebusier. I put a unit of Kurassier behind the first fortification facing down the hill between the two fortifications. The other Kurassier unit I put next to the palace. My reserve in the centre consisted of one unit of better quality pike and shot and four units of arkebusier. I let his forces come to me. I targeted his two veteran tercio units with my artillery until the angle was too narrow to be effective, then I hit any of his cavalry that presented a flank.

I confronted his cavalry on the left in front of the fortifications. This meant that he was getting hit by fire from my muskets and artillery as well. The hussars are weak, but if you flank with them and hit his best cavalry with your kurassiers and arkebusiers you should be able to beat him here. If you fight the cavalry battle right in front of the fortifications your victory here should force him to pull some of cavalry from the centre and maybe even infantry regiments. I lost some and won some but emerged victorious in the cavalry battle on my left.

The veteran tercios are difficult to stop, the others not so much. The veteran tercio on his right hit just to the right of my fortifications in my center. It succeeded in breaking three of my infantry regiments. However it took casualties. I hit it from my detached shot in the fortifications from the flank and then when it broke through and then hit it with four shooting cavalry in reserve. He brought the veteran tercio on his left into the center and not only did it break regiments directly facing it, it then turned back to hit infantry regiments that had survived the onslaught from the rear. Maybe this delay actually helped me though.

However, from my artillery placement on the right to the palace my line held. I held back the hussars on the right. He also held his cavalry back. The pike and shot in the palace were very effective. A tercio disrupted and then fragmented right in front of the palace wall. I broke it with my kurassier and hit his cavalry that had already taken casualties from my shot with the hussars on the right. His whole left flank crumbled. This allowed me to bring regiments from my right to reinforce my centre and to send my cavalry to threaten his artillery.

In the centre it was touch and go for a time. Apart from regiments directly facing tercio I aimed my shot at his better cavalry. My infantry largely held out against his cavalry. His tercios broke through my center, but faced my arkebusier, which I think are actually the most difficult troops for his tercio to deal with, since they retreat and shoot rather than just getting killed in mel´ee. A key point was holding the fortifications. An average tercio was right in front of the first fortification, but was hit with fire from my muskets artillery and to units of shooting cavalry from its flank and rear. It disrupted, but was still able to force my muskets to retreat with its charge. However, the next turn I was able to bring the muskets from the other fortification into the forward fortification and hit him with more fire. He never took the fortification. He never did charge again he just stood there and soaked up the casualties until he broke.

I think this was the turning point. After hitting him with musket fire, my superior pike and shot regiment was charged by his veteran tercio. However, it had taken a lot of casualties and my regiment held eventually breaking it. He still had at least four early tercios, but nothing to support them with. I wiped out his artillery, I still had all of mine and just slaughtered his tercios with my artillery and shooting cavalry. In the end it wasn’t even close.

The key to victory is forming a line of regiments with pikes and moving most of the cavalry reserve to your left. A human player would probably react more quickly in moving his best cavalry to the flanks to win the cavalry battle, but the AI seems slow to adapt the to the changed protestant order of battle.