1. Line Infantry declare charge on skirmishing Light Infantry. The Lights evade through a cavalry unit. Does the Line Infantry stop 1MU short of the cavalry ? Or not start its charge move at all (cos it can't charge cavalry) ?
2. Cossack LC (skirmishers) charge skirmishing Light Infantry. The Lights evade through some Line Infantry. Do the Cossacks: a) charge the Line Infantry ?; b) take a CMT to charge the Line Infantry ?; or c) stop 1MU short of the Line Infantry ?; or d) not start its charge move at all ?
2 charge situations
Moderators: hammy, philqw78, terrys, Blathergut, Slitherine Core
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deadtorius
- Field Marshal - Me 410A
- Posts: 5290
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:41 am
Re: 2 charge situations
I am almost certain this was brought up before, although can't recall what the final result was.
The main issue is: if I charge your skirmishers and uncover your horse and stop 1MU away then I am in the auto drop zone from cavalry, why would I get that close? This of course brings up the whole, well did you know there was cavalry about before you charged? Did it only become apparent after the skirmishers passed through the cavalry? How close were you pursuing the skirmishers and so forth.
Might have to go check past messages I'm thinking maybe 2013 it was brought up. I don't think it was last year.
There was a similar thing with Cossacks, separate Cossack thread. I think it came down to something like you declare the charge on your target, it evades then you have to pass a CMT to close on the revealed infantry if you fail you stop 2 MU short or 1 Mu short something like that. Still bad news for the charger either way.
The main issue is: if I charge your skirmishers and uncover your horse and stop 1MU away then I am in the auto drop zone from cavalry, why would I get that close? This of course brings up the whole, well did you know there was cavalry about before you charged? Did it only become apparent after the skirmishers passed through the cavalry? How close were you pursuing the skirmishers and so forth.
Might have to go check past messages I'm thinking maybe 2013 it was brought up. I don't think it was last year.
There was a similar thing with Cossacks, separate Cossack thread. I think it came down to something like you declare the charge on your target, it evades then you have to pass a CMT to close on the revealed infantry if you fail you stop 2 MU short or 1 Mu short something like that. Still bad news for the charger either way.
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Blathergut
- Field Marshal - Elefant
- Posts: 5882
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:44 am
- Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Re: 2 charge situations
See:
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=35178
Terry's relevant posting in that thread that confirms skirmishers/infantry can hit troops they normally could not charge:
Re: pursuit into new target
Postby terrys » 30 Aug 2012 10:58
1. If the retiring unit 'slides' to get around troops behind it, do the pursuers slide as well if they can catch the retiring unit (ie they go around without fighting the troops in between). There is nothing in the rules to say whether they slide or wheel (or do neither).
Pursuers can't slide. They will wheel to go after the retiring unit(s).
2. If you can catch the retiring unit, this is your target and you cannot go after any new enemy unit.
Correct.
3. If the retiring unit bursts through friends behind, the pursuers may attack the burst through troops (as you cannot now reach the retiring unit). You could alternatively target a different enemy unit if one exists within 2MU. The rules don't say what happens if you choose not to target the burst through troops (nor any other new target).
You can't choose not to target a new enemy unit. You must go your full distance in the direction of the pursuit unless you contact another enemy.
Unfortunately the rules for this is under EVADES on page 31 rather than in the pursuit section.
4. If you cannot catch the retiring unit, then you may choose to target any new enemy formation within 2MU of the retiring unit's path of retreat.
As above you can choose to move your full move in the direction of the reiring unit, OR you can conatact any other enemy within 2MU of the direction of yuor pursuit.
5. If you cannot reach the retiring unit and no new unit is available, you "complete your full move distance in the direction of the original assault or pursuit" (page 31). To my reading this means pursue straight ahead, but it is possible to argue that you instead follow the path of the retiring unit.
Pusuit would be in the direction of the retiring unit. (otherwise it's not really a 'pursuit')
6. Page 31 says that, if the target moves out of range you may go after someone else within 2MU. It also says that if no new target is available you move as 5 above. The obvious issue here is when you have a new target available, but you choose not to charge it. What do you do then, stop the pursuit and do nothing?
My take on this is to amend the word "available" to "chosen" - which I assume isthe intention - so if you choose not to engage a new target then you go straight ahead (or follow the path of the retiring enemy - depending on your view).
You MUST move either:
a) Your full move distance
or b) Into contact with an enemy unit.
7. The new target must take a CT is it is wavering
Correct.
8. If you reach the new target within half your pursuit move, no other tests are taken, you fight that combat now.
You fight the combat immediately - However:
A unit of infantry within 2MU and not in square immediately drops a cohesion level if the pursuers are cavalry.
A unit that is (or becomes) wavering must test for being charged.
9. If the new target is not reached in the first half of the move, then the target takes a CT if it is infantry being charged by mounted. It can form square, countercharge or evade as normal but if it 'stands', it cannot shoot. Fight the combat next turn.
Correct.
10. Infantry/skirmisher pursuers can contact mounted or other troops in a pursuit that they usually can't charge (nothing in the rules either way about this, but Terry has clarified this is the case in previous posts).
Correct - However they can choose not to purue if there is enemy cavalry within 6MU (Page 60).
terrys
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=188&t=35178
Terry's relevant posting in that thread that confirms skirmishers/infantry can hit troops they normally could not charge:
Re: pursuit into new target
Postby terrys » 30 Aug 2012 10:58
1. If the retiring unit 'slides' to get around troops behind it, do the pursuers slide as well if they can catch the retiring unit (ie they go around without fighting the troops in between). There is nothing in the rules to say whether they slide or wheel (or do neither).
Pursuers can't slide. They will wheel to go after the retiring unit(s).
2. If you can catch the retiring unit, this is your target and you cannot go after any new enemy unit.
Correct.
3. If the retiring unit bursts through friends behind, the pursuers may attack the burst through troops (as you cannot now reach the retiring unit). You could alternatively target a different enemy unit if one exists within 2MU. The rules don't say what happens if you choose not to target the burst through troops (nor any other new target).
You can't choose not to target a new enemy unit. You must go your full distance in the direction of the pursuit unless you contact another enemy.
Unfortunately the rules for this is under EVADES on page 31 rather than in the pursuit section.
4. If you cannot catch the retiring unit, then you may choose to target any new enemy formation within 2MU of the retiring unit's path of retreat.
As above you can choose to move your full move in the direction of the reiring unit, OR you can conatact any other enemy within 2MU of the direction of yuor pursuit.
5. If you cannot reach the retiring unit and no new unit is available, you "complete your full move distance in the direction of the original assault or pursuit" (page 31). To my reading this means pursue straight ahead, but it is possible to argue that you instead follow the path of the retiring unit.
Pusuit would be in the direction of the retiring unit. (otherwise it's not really a 'pursuit')
6. Page 31 says that, if the target moves out of range you may go after someone else within 2MU. It also says that if no new target is available you move as 5 above. The obvious issue here is when you have a new target available, but you choose not to charge it. What do you do then, stop the pursuit and do nothing?
My take on this is to amend the word "available" to "chosen" - which I assume isthe intention - so if you choose not to engage a new target then you go straight ahead (or follow the path of the retiring enemy - depending on your view).
You MUST move either:
a) Your full move distance
or b) Into contact with an enemy unit.
7. The new target must take a CT is it is wavering
Correct.
8. If you reach the new target within half your pursuit move, no other tests are taken, you fight that combat now.
You fight the combat immediately - However:
A unit of infantry within 2MU and not in square immediately drops a cohesion level if the pursuers are cavalry.
A unit that is (or becomes) wavering must test for being charged.
9. If the new target is not reached in the first half of the move, then the target takes a CT if it is infantry being charged by mounted. It can form square, countercharge or evade as normal but if it 'stands', it cannot shoot. Fight the combat next turn.
Correct.
10. Infantry/skirmisher pursuers can contact mounted or other troops in a pursuit that they usually can't charge (nothing in the rules either way about this, but Terry has clarified this is the case in previous posts).
Correct - However they can choose not to purue if there is enemy cavalry within 6MU (Page 60).
terrys