Lists for Japanese c1350-1500AD

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:49 am

irondog068 wrote:I am tired of arguing the point. I don't play tournys but if you come across my Samurai for 1550 to 1600 expect this:
Samurai: Armored/drilled/offensive spear-skilled swordsman/superoir
Ashigaru: Protected/drilled/defensive spear/sword or longbow (teppo) swordsman.
Monks: Protected of armored/drilled/superoir small precent elite (fanatics)/ heavy cutting weapon or teppo.

This is for my 28mm and 15mm don't care for it sorry. Its my little world of lead. If someone can give me a reason why not besides "The rules end at 1500 and you will be set on fire" please let me know.

These classifications are bonkers. Offensive spear AND skilled swordsman? So what PoA do you use in melee? It makes no sense. And if you are trapped in your little world of lead, why share the madness? By the way, my Timurid horsemen are Elite (they beat everybody), Heavily Armoured (just look at the Osprey book), CV, Drilled, Lancers, Skilled Swordsmen, Longbow (composite bow is good, ok?).

Malidor · Post by **Malidor** » Fri May 16, 2008 9:40 am

I heard Timurid have pistol-grip storm bolters so they can always use their power-weapons ...wait

carlos wrote:Offensive spear AND skilled swordsman? So what PoA do you use in melee? It makes no sense.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are mixed battlegroups of half spear bases and half sword bases ~ although he did not respond to this suggestion earlier so I might be too generous

WhiteKnight · Post by **WhiteKnight** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:55 am

After reading through this thread from beginning to end again, I'm even more clear that samurai weaponry and styles of fighting/customs of war don't fit easily into the world of FOG. Another ruleset is needed that can cater for the idiosyncrasies of their world. I realise to an extent all FOG army lists must be based on "best fit" and compromise, but I can't see a best fit, even, when some kinds of Japanese BG need to mix mounted and foot and very individualised fighters might choose which of a variety of weapons they might use in impact or melee?

So, in fact, in a way I hope no FOG army list book of the future will include them!

Martin

nikgaukroger · Post by **nikgaukroger** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:49 pm

I suspect people are trying to be too complex and clever - the draft official lists that are being worked on have proved to be, in general, relatively easy to find the correct capabilities, although there are a couple of cute ideas in there as well that may surprise

irondog068 · Post by **irondog068** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:57 pm

I have come to the thought that FOG may not work for the Samurai in the later peroid.

And I have guys who are more than willing to push my Samurai around using my test FOG list. Before I start painting my 15mm Samurai. So I can tell them apart from my 28mm Samurai.

Dave

flameberge · Post by **flameberge** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:19 am

carlos wrote:
Malidor wrote:Assuming equal skill between a samurai with katana and a foot knight with broadsword I would expect the samurai to come out with the POA advantage... although as I've admitted I'm biased
There are almost no parts of a foot knight's armour that the katana can penetrate. Whereas the broadsword...

I couldn't agree more. I would be like attacking a tank with a steak knife. That's why one handed swords went by the wayside and heavier and heavier weapons like the flamberge had to be made so full plate could be penetrated.

flameberge · Post by **flameberge** » Tue May 20, 2008 12:28 am

Malidor wrote:I heard Timurid have pistol-grip storm bolters so they can always use their power-weapons ...wait:

Malidor · Post by **Malidor** » Tue May 20, 2008 8:10 am

flameberge wrote:
carlos wrote:
Malidor wrote:Assuming equal skill between a samurai with katana and a foot knight with broadsword I would expect the samurai to come out with the POA advantage... although as I've admitted I'm biased
There are almost no parts of a foot knight's armour that the katana can penetrate. Whereas the broadsword...
I couldn't agree more. I would be like attacking a tank with a steak knife. That's why one handed swords went by the wayside and heavier and heavier weapons like the flamberge had to be made so full plate could be penetrated.

I have already conceded my example was bad on page two of this thread (last month) on the grounds that it is irrelevant when we consider the rules of the game we are discussing. At the risk of labouring the point FoG looks at who has the best armour in a fight and (with the exception of Heavy Weapons) doesn't get hung up on how effective specific weapons are at penetrating specific armour types - and thus neither should we.