Combined Arms attacks... The Order of Things

[AnalogGamer]

I am wondering if my old PG ways are still valid in regards to attacking an entrenched enemy.

My order is... Level bomber attacks then flies away. Tac Bomber flies in and attacks. Heaviest artillery strikes. Next artillery strikes(if available). Pioneer attack. Grenadier attack. Tank/AT/Recon attack if needed.

Am I wasting suppressive fire? I see the red number turn white after a single direct fire attack.

Should I only attack with suppressive fire until the number turns yellow/red, then save any remaining for after initial direct attack?

I have learned that large caliber artillery has a low rate of fire, and therefore should be used against strong targets, which reduces their usefulness as follow-up weapons.

I am considering a new order...

Level Bomber, then large artillery. Pioneer attack. Second artillery. Grenadier attack. Tac bomber. Tank attack. This way, if the Grenadiers force the enemy off, the tac bomber has the mobility to go after it, and suppress it again.

Would this spread the suppression out better or cost me in possible losses in my initial attacks?

Thanks for any suggestions/advice.

[hs1611]

I am considering a new order...

Level Bomber, then large artillery. Pioneer attack. Second artillery. Grenadier attack. Tac bomber. Tank attack. This way, if the Grenadiers force the enemy off, the tac bomber has the mobility to go after it, and suppress it again.

The only thing I would change here is the Tac Bomber immediatly after the first artillery, if the target is suppressed.
Air attacks, by Tac Bombers or Fighters, do not remove supression. Only ground attacks do.
So if you use your Tac Bomber after artillery and before Pioneer you will get some kills before sending in the infantry and maybe you don't need a second ground unit to finish the target off.

[TSPC37730]

Seems like you must have things quite in hand if you're able to bring that many units to bear on a single target! I'm going to assume it's an objective.

Some points, however...

If I recall correctly in the old Panzer General, if you hit a target with a level bomber (the PC equivalent of a strat bomber) the suppression lasted through the end of your turn. (As an aside, I just got out my old SSI Panzer General game manual, and there it is on page 47 under the level bomber unit class description and I quote "they tend to suppress rather than destroy targets, but this is advantageous because enemy units suppressed by your level bombers remain suppressed until the end of your turn.") No so in PC however! After the first ground attack, any suppression is wiped away and any remaining enemy strength points are unsuppressed. Keep this in mind or else you may be in for an unpleasant reply during follow-on attacks.

Pay attention to your enemy's supply status. Strat bombers in PC cause suppression, but, they also deplete fuel & ammo. Be sure to mouse over the target unit. On the right of the screen, you can see the enemy unit's stats, which should include fuel and ammo. After a couple of runs by, say, a 13 strength DO217, your enemy may be out of ammo. I love those things and am currently playing a campaign with a pair of them. Back to the point though. Once your target is empty, park three units of any type next to it and replacements and resupply should be impossible. You can then pound away with anything - even a 37mm AT unit. A unit which can neither fire nor return fire cannot hurt you.

Personally, I prefer to attack first with the lighter artillery, then the heavier guns. Any attack shaves off a level of entrenchment, whether it's from a 75mm nA or a rail gun. My thought process is that with a lower level of entrenchment the heavier guns will be able to do more actual damage, so attack with them later.

Since suppression is wiped away after each ground attack, I guess my approach would be to attack with bombers & artillery until the enemy is fully suppressed, then attack with a ground unit, suppress again with artillery, ground attack, rinse, repeat.

I don't prefer to go by a set of rules. I guess I fly by the seat of my pants while playing sometimes, but, it's rare that I'm able to have all my units lined up in such a way that I could do it. Anyway, if I'm laying siege to an objective, there's a lot of things to consider which make every situation unique. Who is short on ammo? Which unit needs to gain experience points? How will things look after I attack - will units be safe from counter attack or be ready to move on to the next objective? And so on.

As a final note, be sure to pay close attention to the actual suppression level. Even if the target unit strength number is red, it may not be fully suppressed. It could be at say, 10/12 suppression. Again, mouse over the enemy unit to check. The unsuppressed strength might still throw the first punch & you at least want to know if one will be coming.

Anyway, those are my random thoughts. Happy gaming & I hope you'll enjoy the game as much as I have.

[AnalogGamer]

Thanks for the replies and information.

I tend to use a 2/2/2 ground formation of 2 inf, 2 art, 2 tank... with recon and AT as I can. So, my first DIRECT attack on any victory hex, or entrenched infantry in my way, is by pioneers that ignore entrenchment. I am looking to suppress as much as possible before that first whack by the pioneers, while not wasting any I could use for grenadier/other attacks that will have to deal with any remaining entrenchment.


The "rate of fire" invisible trait, as I understand it, rewards the big guns more when they shoot at full strength entrenched targets like troops and forts and tanks... rather than as a follow-on weapon, or against AAA or AT guns. My 210s get first crack at any major target from now on.

The learning process continues...

[TSPC37730]

All other things being equal, I agree that attacking first with a pioneer unit is generally the best choice. But, it may not always be the best choice. An experienced grenadier with an attack hero might do better than a noob pioneer for example. Remaining entrenchment, initiative, heroes & experience all come into play. Always check your expected results before giving the order to attack.