Kushan

Cam_Millar · Post by **Cam_Millar** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:05 am

I am going to a competition shortly and one of the armies I was considering was Kushan. The Kushan army list won't be out in time for the comp, and I have never seen any beta lists. Now I am not looking for any state secrets - just anyone's comments on whether the list I was thinking about would be plausible.

The version I was looking at was late Kushan (in the DBM lists, the Kidarite Huns/Chionite period when the LhF become LhS). Taking the DBM list as a base:

Kushan 400AD:
Generals 0-1 IC, 0-2 FC, 0-3 TC
Cataphracts 6-12 (in 4-6 BGs) Cataphracts, Heavily Armoured, Superior, Undrilled, Lancer, Swordsmen
Horse Archers 16-36 (in 4-6 BGs) LH, Unprotected, Average, Undrilled, Bow, Swordsmen (or same but as Cavalry?)
Kushan Foot 0-12 (in 6-8BGs ) LF, Unprotected, Average, Undrilled, Bow or MF, Prot, Avg, Undrilled, Light Spear
Elephants 0-4 (in 2 BGs) Elephant, Average, Undrilled
Indian archers 6-12 (in 6-8 BGs) MF, Unprotected, Average, Undrilled, Bow

Plus small amounts of various rubbish (the Irr BdI, LhO, PsO/BwI/BwO, PkF, and other Indian troops R BdI, CvO, CvI, BdI in the DBM lists).

Any bad reactions (or if it seems Ok suggestions how to use an army like this).

Cam

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:41 am

That's close to my interpretation of it. Still not sure what to make out of the BdI though. For the rest of the Indians I'm taking cues from the Beta lists for Classical Indian. The first time I took this lot out for a fight I got beaten up by Pontic though. Light horse is just not that useful sometimes if it has no other light troops on the table to fight.

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:35 pm

Cam_Millar wrote: Horse Archers 16-36 (in 4-6 BGs) LH, Unprotected, Average, Undrilled, Bow, Swordsmen (or same but as Cavalry?)

Plus small amounts of various rubbish (the Irr BdI, LhO, PsO/BwI/BwO, PkF, and other Indian troops R BdI, CvO, CvI, BdI in the DBM lists).

Any bad reactions (or if it seems Ok suggestions how to use an army like this).

Yea the LH probably don't have a swordsmen POA. This seems uncommon in lists.
Perhaps those that are taken as CV like the the skytihans in some Rise of Rome lists could be unprotected CV BW/Sw. Remember the Sword POA is not if they had a sword but was that their role and were they better than their contemporaries.

Note I would hwager you have some mandatory MF Lt Spear types.

Probably options or requirements for some Poor troops too. (Cv-i)

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:20 pm

hazelbark, the Kushans have the latter option of fielding their LH as a Hunnic tribe and Huns, as far as we know, get the swordsmen PoA for their LH too. So this makes sense.

Ironhand · Post by **Ironhand** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:51 pm

The "swordsman" rating for light horse seems to depend on how aggressive the subjects were in reality. Scythians get swordsman, and I would suspect the Huns and Mongols will as well. The Seleucid list as an example makes a clear distinction betweens "Scythians" who get swordsman and "other Horse Archers" who don't.

So depending on the historical behavior of your LH, some might have swordsman and and some might not. It's not necessarily an either/or proposition.

carlos · Post by **carlos** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:19 pm

I don't like the Swordsmen PoA for my LH in the Kushan list. It increases the cost of the horse archers by 25% and it is only really useful when fighting other LH. If enemy LH are not present on the table, I'd rather just spend the points on more LH or other troops. Sure, it's good against LF but with double the dice you should beat them in the open. Against anything else you lose anyway so...

thabear · Post by **thabear** » Sat May 10, 2008 10:56 pm

Hi All
I hope someone here can help me , i currently have a 15mm army of Kushans based for WAB , it was painted nearly ten years ago and has never been used even for WAB games , i always had a soft spot for the Kushans , ten years ago no-one beleived me they were inthe DBM book , now i see them everywhere at comps .

I would like to re-base and convert it into a FOG Kushan army . I'm sure there are enough figures as i went very overboard with the painting years ago .
I have my first game coming up in two weeks and although i was offered a "loaner" army to use i'd really like to use my own figures the main problem is i only have the FOG rule book at this stage and i am hoping someone can write up an 800pt list for me to use with my Kushans .

I am very unfamiliar with this set of rules so far and my freind is willing to take the time to run me through a few games .
I'd really appreciate if someone wrote out a list with all the relevant factors included so i have something to work from to re-base my army to the FOG/DBM standard .

I am currently looking at my other unpainted 15mm collections to look at other armies i can paint up , but for now i need an army that would fit in with opponents from DBM book 2 era .

I hope this is not asking too much , or that i appear to be lazy , i just dont really understand all the terminology yet and it looks like everyone here has a different way of writing out thier lists and points cost .

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated , cheers tom

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:27 pm

Here is a version my son used (795 points)

C-in-C FC - - - - - - CinC 1 50 50
SG TC - - - - - - - 3 35 105
1 Light Horse LH Average Drilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4 8 32
2 Light Horse LH Average Drilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4 8 32
3 Light Horse LH Average Drilled Unprotected Bow - - - 4 8 32
4 Light Horse LH Average Drilled Unprotected Bow - - - 6 8 48
5 Archers LF Average Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 8 5 40
6 Indian archers MF Poor Undrilled Unprotected Bow - - - 6 3 18
7 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - - - 2 25 50
8 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - - - 2 25 50
9 Elephants EL Average Undrilled - - - - - 2 25 50
10 Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4 18 72
11 Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4 18 72
12 Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4 18 72
13 Cataphracts Ct Superior Undrilled Heavily armoured - Lancers Swordmen - 4 18 72

thabear · Post by **thabear** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:10 am

wow , thankyou , thats exactly what i was looking for in a list , and i can actually understand it in that format

thanks again Richard ,

i think i've misinterpreted what a Kushan army has in it , i have loads of spearmen left over ? i must have doubled this army up as something else at some time . I have just looked at what i have painted in the shelf and it seems i am lacking the elephants ( must have sold them off years ago ) , it seems i am going to have to stop painting the WAB 28mm's and do some more FOG 15mm's to acheive this army

The figures i have are all swathed in long white robes , turbans , round sheilds and definetly have a Middle Eastern or Nth African appearance

i have

166 x spearmen
92 x archers
42 x heavy armoured cavalry ( could be considered cataphracts )
84 x light horse , ( can be either archer or javelin )

any suggestions as to what i can use these for as a "Rise of Rome " army ? , i have the "Rise of Rome" book coming tomorrow ,,,,,,,,,, might start another thread

i must sound like a complete dumby .

cheers tom

thabear · Post by **thabear** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:20 am

" argggggghhh " i just found some 1/72 plastic elephants made by HaT , they are the right size for a 15mm army , i think i'll paint them up and use them and even though my "Middle Eastern " looking figures arent strictly Kushan in appearance ill use them as a substitute until i get right into the game a bit more .

ive looked back on my Ebay notes and it seems i sold off my entire 15mm Kushan many army years ago ,,,,,,,,,, i have no idea what i used these Middle Eastern looking chaps for

thanks for the help , and sorry for the frustration , cheers tom

KingHassan · Post by **KingHassan** » Sun May 11, 2008 3:23 pm

For Kushan, the Rise of Rome army list book, on page 54, says to use the Parthian allies list .

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Sun May 11, 2008 7:43 pm

KingHassan wrote:For Kushan, the Rise of Rome army list book, on page 54, says to use the Parthian allies list .

That's only for that particular allied contingent which would not be likely to include any elephants or Indian troops.

KingHassan · Post by **KingHassan** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:36 pm

Mr. Scott,
will the Cataphracts and or light horse be allowed to differ from the specifics listed in that Parthian allies list?

frederic · Post by **frederic** » Mon May 12, 2008 7:31 am

I have fun playing Kushan in Cannes 2008 tournament.
So now my painting schedule for the next 3 years are all the BG needed to play Parthian/Kushan/Classical Indian.

rbodleyscott · Post by **rbodleyscott** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:14 am

KingHassan wrote:Mr. Scott,
will the Cataphracts and or light horse be allowed to differ from the specifics listed in that Parthian allies list?

Yes, the light horse will be allowed to be bow, swordsmen (optionally)

thabear · Post by **thabear** » Sat May 24, 2008 7:52 am

Ok , well i played my first game today with the Kushan list provided above by Richard

I didnt do anything too complex withthe army , i basically just marched straight over the table and gave the Romans a couple of bl**dy noses withthe elephantsand cataphracts , no finnese or fanfare ,,,,,, then it all began to crumble as some LH went awhol and i lost my elephants in melee against the roman legionaries

I really enjoyed the game although i know i made lots of mistakes , i grouped the cataphracts together with the LH which slowed them down to a snails pace but the 6 x elephants made quite an impact and just seeing the expression on my opponents face was worth the effort of painting them .

Even though i made lots of mistakes ( and i still dont get the cohesion phase ) i really enjoyed the game , my deployment will be much better thought out next time , i really just wanted to get all the elements into combat to get a feel for how they work , i had no intention of winning , just having fun , which i did .

I can see i'm going to be painting a few more 15mm armies from the later supplements now that i have a feel for the game .

thanks for the advice and the list , cheers tom

Kushan

Kushan

Re: Kushan