New Late Republican Roman Army

[john77]

Hi all,

am putting together a late republican roman army, and just throught id throw it out for perusal and comment.
3 TC generals
1 1 archers bg 6 bases

2 1 slingers bg 8 bases

3 1 Cretan Archers bg 6 bases

4 1 light cav bg 4 bases

5 1 light cav bg 4 bases

6 1 mf off spear (rhaetian) bg 6 bases

7 1 mf impact foot (spanish) bg 6 bases

8-11 4 x legionaries (suprior) bg 6 bases

12-13 2 x Heavy Cav armoured superior bg 4 bases

1 fortified camp

idea being to take lots of missile troops to soften up enemy pike / spear / warband before the legionaries get their hands on them, MF and Cav to conduct holding actions and guard flanks / bad ground.

let me know what yaz think

cheers

John

[dadieau]

I'm like new here but don't you need at least 6 bases of velites?

[john77]

I thought that you only needed the 6 minimum if the army was before 80bc? I wanted to do Ceasarian Army in Gaul which i thought was a later date (hence why i chose spanish and rheoxilia auxillaries rather than greek)

btw does anyone know if the numidian light horse were used in ceasars gallic campaigns?

cheers

john
(wishing he brought his army list and FOG rule book to work)

[WhiteKnight]

My rusty memory of Caesar's Gallic Wars is that he spoke of German and Spanish cavalry.There were sometimes allied Gauls, too, I expect .I don't think he would have differentiated between FOG's types of horse-mounted troops as light and heavy as any horseman could have fulfilled LH or Cv functions appropriate to circumstance?

Martin

[ars_belli]

You are correct, no velites are necessary after 80 BC, as they no longer existed in the Roman army.

In Gaul, Caesar had about 4000 Gallic cavalry, later adding 400-500 German horse. There is a single mention of Spanish cavalry, and some of his "light-armed Numidians" may possibly have been horsemen. However, the vast majority of Caesar's cavalry would have been provided by allied Gallic tribes, and these would have fought much more like Cv do in FoG, rather than LH.

Cheers,
Scott

[hazelbark]

More legions less MF.

The legions are what win the game. You need to force your foe to fight them.

I started out with designs much like yours and realized that I could only win with the legions. More legions. Less other.

Note I even downgrade one BG of legion to average. They still work well.

[mikekh]

More legions less MF.

The legions are what win the game. You need to force your foe to fight them.

I started out with designs much like yours and realized that I could only win with the legions. More legions. Less other.

Note I even downgrade one BG of legion to average. They still work well.

Me too.
3 @ 6 base Av. Legion
3 @ 6 base Sup. Legion.
1 @ 4 base Av. Prot. Cav

1 IC and 2 TC. Rest spend on skirmishers. Work the skirmishers into the enemy main line and look to get some disrupted enemy before first main contact.
Well that's the plan anyway.
But definitely bags of legionaries.

[domblas]

my opinion:

ur army wil be very manoeuvrable, u'd be advantaged in bad terrain so maybe u'd take care to choose terrain by gaining initiative. 1 FC rather than TC. Taking control of central DG terrain will be very helpfull if u face pikes or spears to threaten their flanks

second: if ur BG of light foot are just here to make ennemy slow, no need to have 6 bases, 4 will be enough

third: elephants in the middle of two legion BG would be good

fourth: dont fear warbands, its not DBM, legions became strong


personnally i prefer big legions BG

[lordmarc7]

With regards the size of the legions it depends on who you are facing. If you expect shooting then big BGs are better. If not then small BGs (4s) are better off because they are statistically less likely to lose a base when they are engaged in combat and they are more manuvarable.

[Ninthplain]

The Legion is what will win a game for you. Against a historical opponent the Legion is very tough.

I currently run: 799 points

3xTC
4 BG Legionaires 6 stand Superior
1 BG Legionaire 4 stand Average
1 BG Elephants
2 BG Javalinmen 6 stand
1 BG Slingers 6 stand
1 BG Light Horse 6 stand
1 Bg Cavelry 4 stand Superior
1 BG Cavelry 4 stand Superior
1 BG MF 6 stand
1 Fortified camp

I ran this against an Italian Medievil army yesterday, (very knight heavy), and held my own. I still lost but it came down to each of us needing only one point for the break.

I would suggest taking the elephants and anchoring them in with the Legion, (especially if you are going to an open tourny). Last night the Hephalumps took out 2 knight BGs and ended up taking the camp. (of course they then got shot to death by a bunch of LF bow but did the job before dying). If you do not have them anchored, they are very brittle, put some angry HF on each side and it is a pretty hard nut to crack. I was able to add Legionaires to every combat along the line including the elephant combat while also breaking other troop units with the knights.

<BRIAN>

[mikekh]

I've also played around with a BG of Heavy Artillery and placed it behind field fortification. This allows the arty to be placed 15 MU in from the base edge. I played 5 games at 'Challenge' and not one enemy based came in range/arc of fire! The effect is to create a no-go corridor - pity I couldn't exploit it!

[Keydet83]

Here is what I am building for an 800-point late Republican Army:


Commander-in-Chief--Field Comander (50 pts)
Sub-Commanders--2xTroop Comanders (70 pts)
Legionaires--5BGs (6 stands each) Superior/Armored/Drilled (420 pts)
Legionaires--1BG (4 stands) Superior/Armored/Drilled (56 pts)
Heavy Cavalry--1BG (4 stands) Superior/Armored/Undrilled (64 pts)
Light Cavalry--2BGs (4 stands each) Protected/Average/Undrilled (56 pts)
Archers--2BGs (6 stands each) Unprotected/Average/Undrilled (60 pts)
Fortified Camp-1 (24 pts)

[rtaylor]

With regards the size of the legions it depends on who you are facing. If you expect shooting then big BGs are better. If not then small BGs (4s) are better off because they are statistically less likely to lose a base when they are engaged in combat and they are more manuvarable.

I don't worry too much about shooting even with 4-base BGs. If the legionaries are in a battle line, then every BG except the ones on the ends can have at most 2 files shooting at them (max 2 dice with LF or 3 dice with MF), needing to get 2 hits on armoured foot. The more vulnerable end BGs can be screened with LF.

[john77]

hi all, thanks for the replies. Well the army is still being painted, so am limited with what i've got at the moment. Most club games are against a variety of armies - bosporan, parthian, spartan etc. Yes i agree about the too much medium foot, was too focused on the "hold the terrain" concept, and also the lack of light horse which seems to be the bain of heavy armies like the romans.

[john77]

well looking at it i could replace the 1 bg of heavy can (48 pts) with 1 bg of elephants (50) points and have them blocked in the middle or end of the legionaries - .. if they go at the end then they would in theory keep any enemy cav away (cause disorder), however in the middle would be harder hitting. any thoughts

[WhiteKnight]

At the end means possible target for massed shooting and possibly overlapped in melee phase, both of which are worth avoiding for elephants. In the middle of a battle line is better IMO.

Martin

[lreissin]

Not sure if Republican or Imperial Romans are allow a LF third line of support as they did in DBM?

[ars_belli]

Not sure if Republican or Imperial Romans are allow a LF third line of support as they did in DBM?

Not Mid- or Late Republican Romans, as these did not have rear ranks of LF historically.

Cheers,
Scott

[john77]

hmm well that settles it then, elephants in the middle of the roman line. Just hope they find somthing squishy!
if facing a pike/spear army is there much point in this deployment?

cheers

john

[Brainsnaffler]

if facing a pike/spear army is there much point in this deployment?

From what I can see in POA terms, on impact the pike / spear will get + if they are steady and have at least 2 ranks, whereas the elephants will get + so, it will even itself out unless there's a BG of pikes at 4 ranks deep.

Pretty much the same in Melee, but the elephants will get more dice per base (depends on if the infantry overlap you).

Overall, I would say the deployment is worth it, but look at unsteadying the pike / spear before you charge with your elephants to gain a devastating charge . Otherwise, it will be pretty equal. Just remember, elephants are quite tough if they are supported, so don't send them off without the infantry!